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That logic makes the "re-use" part of "reduce, re-use, recycle" redundant. You're part of a society that, when acting roughly in tandem, can make large-scale ch

That logic makes the "re-use" part of "reduce, re-use, recycle" redundant. You're part of a society that, when acting roughly in tandem, can make large-scale chages. If everyone followed your logic nothing would ever change and, if I'm honest, it sounds more like a rationalisation for indulging in new tech (an impulse which I share!)

pdimitar 5y ago
I believe you're frustrated with the world's stance towards ecology -- for good reason. I am too. Almost nobody who can make a true difference gives a f_ck. But I am looking at it historically and holistically while you seem to want to argue theoreticals that don't have basis in our current reality. Let me be 100% clear here: I am sharing your stance in general but there are complications I am forced to consider and act accordingly with: - Software gets slower with time, so I have to upgrade. Me upgrading only once 7-8 years is, I think, a fairly heroic effort on my side. I've seen businesses that blindly upgrade everyone's laptops every 3 years, zero questions asked. - You and I have no recourse whatsoever against the big players who make disposable tech. You think I don't want them fined all the way to bankruptcy and even jail? I would love that. But we can't make it happen. - My "logic" is simply of a family man with a ton of responsibilities and a pretty demanding job. Please don't make me the villain because I am doing my very best just to function and have a few precious relaxing hours per day. Most of the common folk will never be willing to sacrifice the little "me time" they have just so they free some ecological bandwidth... which will be quickly consumed and re-balanced (in the wrong direction) by those who create huge and environmentally disastrous manufacturing facilities. - I love to indulge in a new tech but I have mostly tamed this wrong impulse. Doesn't mean I have to hold on to inadequate machines until they fall apart in my hands however. --- Again, I get where you are coming from but please don't vent on me for doing the best that I can without sacrificing all the comfort and free time that I already don't have much of. There are much bigger villains out there that deserve your frustration more than I do.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  I would add that it's okay (or, at minimum, better) to recognize that you personally upgrade more often than you should, while also realizing we should maintain support for older hardware so everyone else isn't also forced to upgrade too often.
  - pdimitar 5y ago
    Agreed on that. People who can't upgrade often shouldn't be ignored. Slack and Teams should work non-intrusively on laptops with 4GB of RAM.
    - dagw 5y ago
      Teams doesn't consistently work well on my machine with 64GB of RAM, so it's not simply a memory problem. Slack I've for some reason never had a problem with, even on a laptop with 4 GB of RAM. But to be fair I'm only on a handful of fairly low volume slack channels.
- frereubu 5y ago
  I'm sorry that came across as a vent - it certainly wasn't intended that way. I'm not trying to make you the villain, I'm trying to gently point out that the logic you're using on the surface would excuse a lot of people just not trying. Now you've expanded on that I agree with much of what you say - everyone needs to take things at the page they can handle - and my life sounds similar to yours, so I totally get the lack of bandwidth. There's a podcast that my wife listens to quite a bit call Outrage and Optimism about the climate crisis, and it's essentially my approach - I am angry about the lack of leadership by governments, but I also feel like people need to be optimistic about what we can achieve together, including pushing governments to act. I took part in the initial Extinction rebellion protest in London, and although I don't think it achieved much in immediate concrete terms, and I feel like the organisation is going backwards now, I do think it galvanized a lot of people into believing there are enough people out there who want meaningful action that speaking up is worth it. I was handing out leaflets to people from all walks of life - from a guy in a sharp business suit to a local building foreman who runs a vegan group - and only got one person out of hundreds who thought it was pointless. Most were actively enthusiastic and felt glad that there were lots of other people who shared their concerns.
  - pdimitar 5y ago
    Yeah, I don't disagree with you at all. Truth is, people would use anything that sounds like logic to them to excuse themselves from not helping even a little. Sad fact of life. It's really cool that spreading awareness works! I just wish we collectively as a civilization finally move to the next stage after it because ever since I exist (I am 41 y/o) people were mostly only spreading awareness. Guess I am getting old and jaded because I'd like to see some action on these extremely important topics one day.

pdimitar 5y ago

I believe you're frustrated with the world's stance towards ecology -- for good reason. I am too. Almost nobody who can make a true difference gives a f_ck. But I am looking at it historically and holistically while you seem to want to argue theoreticals that don't have basis in our current reality. Let me be 100% clear here: I am sharing your stance in general but there are complications I am forced to consider and act accordingly with: - Software gets slower with time, so I have to upgrade. Me upgrading only once 7-8 years is, I think, a fairly heroic effort on my side. I've seen businesses that blindly upgrade everyone's laptops every 3 years, zero questions asked. - You and I have no recourse whatsoever against the big players who make disposable tech. You think I don't want them fined all the way to bankruptcy and even jail? I would love that. But we can't make it happen. - My "logic" is simply of a family man with a ton of responsibilities and a pretty demanding job. Please don't make me the villain because I am doing my very best just to function and have a few precious relaxing hours per day. Most of the common folk will never be willing to sacrifice the little "me time" they have just so they free some ecological bandwidth... which will be quickly consumed and re-balanced (in the wrong direction) by those who create huge and environmentally disastrous manufacturing facilities. - I love to indulge in a new tech but I have mostly tamed this wrong impulse. Doesn't mean I have to hold on to inadequate machines until they fall apart in my hands however. --- Again, I get where you are coming from but please don't vent on me for doing the best that I can without sacrificing all the comfort and free time that I already don't have much of. There are much bigger villains out there that deserve your frustration more than I do.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
I would add that it's okay (or, at minimum, better) to recognize that you personally upgrade more often than you should, while also realizing we should maintain support for older hardware so everyone else isn't also forced to upgrade too often.
- pdimitar 5y ago
  Agreed on that. People who can't upgrade often shouldn't be ignored. Slack and Teams should work non-intrusively on laptops with 4GB of RAM.
  - dagw 5y ago
    Teams doesn't consistently work well on my machine with 64GB of RAM, so it's not simply a memory problem. Slack I've for some reason never had a problem with, even on a laptop with 4 GB of RAM. But to be fair I'm only on a handful of fairly low volume slack channels.
frereubu 5y ago
I'm sorry that came across as a vent - it certainly wasn't intended that way. I'm not trying to make you the villain, I'm trying to gently point out that the logic you're using on the surface would excuse a lot of people just not trying. Now you've expanded on that I agree with much of what you say - everyone needs to take things at the page they can handle - and my life sounds similar to yours, so I totally get the lack of bandwidth. There's a podcast that my wife listens to quite a bit call Outrage and Optimism about the climate crisis, and it's essentially my approach - I am angry about the lack of leadership by governments, but I also feel like people need to be optimistic about what we can achieve together, including pushing governments to act. I took part in the initial Extinction rebellion protest in London, and although I don't think it achieved much in immediate concrete terms, and I feel like the organisation is going backwards now, I do think it galvanized a lot of people into believing there are enough people out there who want meaningful action that speaking up is worth it. I was handing out leaflets to people from all walks of life - from a guy in a sharp business suit to a local building foreman who runs a vegan group - and only got one person out of hundreds who thought it was pointless. Most were actively enthusiastic and felt glad that there were lots of other people who shared their concerns.
- pdimitar 5y ago
  Yeah, I don't disagree with you at all. Truth is, people would use anything that sounds like logic to them to excuse themselves from not helping even a little. Sad fact of life. It's really cool that spreading awareness works! I just wish we collectively as a civilization finally move to the next stage after it because ever since I exist (I am 41 y/o) people were mostly only spreading awareness. Guess I am getting old and jaded because I'd like to see some action on these extremely important topics one day.