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> Take a look around the neighborhood. Maybe that’s the point? Probably not, since South Korea maintains pretty good relations with its neighbors. South Korea

by smhost 5y ago

> Take a look around the neighborhood. Maybe that’s the point? Probably not, since South Korea maintains pretty good relations with its neighbors. South Korea (as well as the rest of the world) doesn't see the U.S. anymore as a rational partner, but as something to be managed with caution. North Korea is unironically seen as a more predictable and reliable enemy than the U.S. is seen as a reliable ally. Nobody is happy about this, but that's the reality.

jgilias 5y ago
Are you actually from South Korea to be able to comment on what the South Korean perception on their neighborhood is? Like, this is a no offense intended genuine question. Because from an outside perspective the neighborhood really looks challenging. China is growing stronger and throws muscle around a lot with diplomatic rows ensuing even over traditional ways of cabbage preparation. Relationships with Japan are cordial at best due to WWII legacy. North Korea seems to be a pretty big liability.
- xpressvideoz 5y ago
  As a South Korean, I can share some perspective. There has always been pro-American and anti-American atmosphere in South Korea. Recently, the scale seems to be more and more skewed towards the United States. We're definitely not in favor of North Korea, and even regarding China, more and more South Korean are seeing them as a threat rather than a partner. We don't love the US either, but when faced to choose between the US and China, most Korean would choose the US. I guess the GP was just salty about the Trump administration.
- smhost 5y ago
  The South Korean position locally is actually not that challenging in a particular sense, despite typical media exaggerations. It's almost straightforward. SK has strong economic and cultural ties to its neighbors that can be accessed to stabilize relations if needed. North Korea is not really a liability in itself. KJU has been acting consistently towards opening up the North Korean economy on NK's own terms, which would benefit both nations tremendously. Those kinds of attempts are being stonewalled by Biden, and that's causing the U.S. to lose favor even among some pro-Americanists. As for the kimchi problem, I don't know what to say. That's the same kind of bickering as when France tells people to stop labeling things as champagne. I understand that those things can get brutal, but it's nothing world-changing. Beneath the headlines, South Korea has been quietly strengthening relations with China, because South Korea is not suicidal. The groundwork has to be laid today for the eventuality of a Chinese economy that is at least twice the strength of the U.S. economy. But even without China, at some point people are going to have to learn to live in a way that isn't dictated by the fears of the American empire.
  - darkerside 5y ago
    South Korea has been a stalwart US ally for many years. While you're right that relations with NK and China have softened, and calling them challenging is probably an overestimation, the US is far from a bit player in the region. Like any democracy, you have continents of folks that want to cozy up to China, and others that trust the history of their relationships with the US and Japan.
    - smhost 5y ago
      South Korea has been less of an ally than it has been a client state of the U.S. "Ally" implies some degree of autonomy for both parties. South Korea has never really had the opportunity to act for itself, and when it has, it has received cold and rather tonedeaf responses from the U.S. (just look at the recent visit by Moon to the U.S.). That's not at all to say that the SK-US relation is inauthentic; there's definitely something genuine there. But that authenticity doesn't to seem recognized by the current administration. Biden seems to want to keep South Korea as the client state that it has always been despite (what seems to me) to be reasonable demands of sovereignty.
      - darkerside 5y ago
        Power imbalances are nothing new, and I don't see what about South Korea would make it a "client state". The presence of military bases? South Korea is absolutely an autonomous country with its own military. I don't understand your comment at all.
  - jgilias 5y ago
    I don't believe the least bit that there are more than a few people in South Korea who believe that they are living 'in a way dictated by fears of the American empire'. I say this as someone living in a region where the 'local neighborhood' also has its challenges in the form of a wannabe world power local authoritarian hegemon. Alliances, including the one with the US, are seen as paramount for security and long-term sovereignty. If that also fulfills some US strategic interests, so be it. The alternative is dreadful.

by smhost 5y ago

jgilias 5y ago

Are you actually from South Korea to be able to comment on what the South Korean perception on their neighborhood is? Like, this is a no offense intended genuine question. Because from an outside perspective the neighborhood really looks challenging. China is growing stronger and throws muscle around a lot with diplomatic rows ensuing even over traditional ways of cabbage preparation. Relationships with Japan are cordial at best due to WWII legacy. North Korea seems to be a pretty big liability.

xpressvideoz 5y ago
As a South Korean, I can share some perspective. There has always been pro-American and anti-American atmosphere in South Korea. Recently, the scale seems to be more and more skewed towards the United States. We're definitely not in favor of North Korea, and even regarding China, more and more South Korean are seeing them as a threat rather than a partner. We don't love the US either, but when faced to choose between the US and China, most Korean would choose the US. I guess the GP was just salty about the Trump administration.
smhost 5y ago
The South Korean position locally is actually not that challenging in a particular sense, despite typical media exaggerations. It's almost straightforward. SK has strong economic and cultural ties to its neighbors that can be accessed to stabilize relations if needed. North Korea is not really a liability in itself. KJU has been acting consistently towards opening up the North Korean economy on NK's own terms, which would benefit both nations tremendously. Those kinds of attempts are being stonewalled by Biden, and that's causing the U.S. to lose favor even among some pro-Americanists. As for the kimchi problem, I don't know what to say. That's the same kind of bickering as when France tells people to stop labeling things as champagne. I understand that those things can get brutal, but it's nothing world-changing. Beneath the headlines, South Korea has been quietly strengthening relations with China, because South Korea is not suicidal. The groundwork has to be laid today for the eventuality of a Chinese economy that is at least twice the strength of the U.S. economy. But even without China, at some point people are going to have to learn to live in a way that isn't dictated by the fears of the American empire.
- darkerside 5y ago
  South Korea has been a stalwart US ally for many years. While you're right that relations with NK and China have softened, and calling them challenging is probably an overestimation, the US is far from a bit player in the region. Like any democracy, you have continents of folks that want to cozy up to China, and others that trust the history of their relationships with the US and Japan.
  - smhost 5y ago
    South Korea has been less of an ally than it has been a client state of the U.S. "Ally" implies some degree of autonomy for both parties. South Korea has never really had the opportunity to act for itself, and when it has, it has received cold and rather tonedeaf responses from the U.S. (just look at the recent visit by Moon to the U.S.). That's not at all to say that the SK-US relation is inauthentic; there's definitely something genuine there. But that authenticity doesn't to seem recognized by the current administration. Biden seems to want to keep South Korea as the client state that it has always been despite (what seems to me) to be reasonable demands of sovereignty.
    - darkerside 5y ago
      Power imbalances are nothing new, and I don't see what about South Korea would make it a "client state". The presence of military bases? South Korea is absolutely an autonomous country with its own military. I don't understand your comment at all.
- jgilias 5y ago
  I don't believe the least bit that there are more than a few people in South Korea who believe that they are living 'in a way dictated by fears of the American empire'. I say this as someone living in a region where the 'local neighborhood' also has its challenges in the form of a wannabe world power local authoritarian hegemon. Alliances, including the one with the US, are seen as paramount for security and long-term sovereignty. If that also fulfills some US strategic interests, so be it. The alternative is dreadful.