4 ms·

ARM/M1 family will be plenty of competition I think.

by himlion 5y ago

reader_mode 5y ago
What ARM device outside of M1 is competitive for desktop ?
- vbezhenar 5y ago
  None that I'm aware off. But Qualcomm promises to release desktop CPU soon. I don't have high hopes and it probably won't surpass Intel, but I think that it'll be competitive enough to be interesting.
  - reader_mode 5y ago
    Qualcomm already has that Microsoft Surface X1 chip and it's terrible. They acquired a player in this space recently but from what I saw that's two years away from launching. I'd have higher hopes Samsung pulls something off with their fab but still skeptical. Apple seems to be generations ahead in this space.
    - torginus 5y ago
      Imo, it's not that bad, about the level of an entry-level 8th gen Intel Core chip. The problem came with the generally sorry state of x86 emulation (and lack of native support).
      - vbezhenar 5y ago
        Main difference between Apple and Microsoft is that Apple can force most developers to release ARM versions of their software pretty quickly, while Windows software vendors still often ship 32-bit software. While Rosetta might be good, I'm sure it'll be gone in a few years and most people won't notice. It won't work with Windows.
dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago
First, it's still a fairly closed platform. Whatever work being done on reverse engineering it and finding out what its components do is being done by third parties and even though it's already possible to run Linux somewhat, it's hard to say we'll be ever able to use 100% of the platform capabilities without Apple's help. Even if we do that with M1, Apple will change things in M2, it's going to be a cat-and-mouse game. Apple has zero motivation to help these efforts (heck, they would try to stop it if the law allowed). So although RISC-V is far away behind M1 now, I very much hope in quiet gradual improvements here until a tipping point when somebody realizes it's actually a competitive platform not just for industrial use cases but also for general computing.
- vbezhenar 5y ago
  > they would try to stop it if the law allowed What law? They locked down iPhone and law does not care. How is it different for Mac? The could've locked down their M1 Macs, but they deliberately chose not to.
  - lifeisstillgood 5y ago
    I think the parent comment was refering to law(s) preventing reverse engineering of hardware - thus "Apple would prevent people reverse engineering the M1 if they could". "locked down" from your comment as I understand it, is just making it hard to gain root on the device. Nothing in most Western law prevents you or I from jailbreaking the phone or cracking it open and looking at it under a microscope or whatever. Thats good. What would be perfect is of course publish schematics and manuals etc.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- xenadu02 5y ago
  The Mac remains the Mac. That is not changing. That has been repeated by Apple executives publicly many times. Part of the Mac's heritage is that you can turn off the guard rails and take control of your system, including installing things like kernel extensions. These are not things most users should need to do - secure by default is very important - but they remain possible. Others have documented the engineering that went into a new boot system for the M1 to make multi-boot and custom kernels possible. Engineering that would be pointless if no one were expected to use it.
deregulateMed 5y ago
Verticle integration is going to make it low quality soon. Today it's an average expensive chip, tomorrow it's below average. It's really hard to keep up with the world.

ARM/M1 family will be plenty of competition I think.

reader_mode 5y ago

What ARM device outside of M1 is competitive for desktop ?

vbezhenar 5y ago
None that I'm aware off. But Qualcomm promises to release desktop CPU soon. I don't have high hopes and it probably won't surpass Intel, but I think that it'll be competitive enough to be interesting.
- reader_mode 5y ago
  Qualcomm already has that Microsoft Surface X1 chip and it's terrible. They acquired a player in this space recently but from what I saw that's two years away from launching. I'd have higher hopes Samsung pulls something off with their fab but still skeptical. Apple seems to be generations ahead in this space.
  - torginus 5y ago
    Imo, it's not that bad, about the level of an entry-level 8th gen Intel Core chip. The problem came with the generally sorry state of x86 emulation (and lack of native support).
    - vbezhenar 5y ago
      Main difference between Apple and Microsoft is that Apple can force most developers to release ARM versions of their software pretty quickly, while Windows software vendors still often ship 32-bit software. While Rosetta might be good, I'm sure it'll be gone in a few years and most people won't notice. It won't work with Windows.

dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago

First, it's still a fairly closed platform. Whatever work being done on reverse engineering it and finding out what its components do is being done by third parties and even though it's already possible to run Linux somewhat, it's hard to say we'll be ever able to use 100% of the platform capabilities without Apple's help. Even if we do that with M1, Apple will change things in M2, it's going to be a cat-and-mouse game. Apple has zero motivation to help these efforts (heck, they would try to stop it if the law allowed). So although RISC-V is far away behind M1 now, I very much hope in quiet gradual improvements here until a tipping point when somebody realizes it's actually a competitive platform not just for industrial use cases but also for general computing.

vbezhenar 5y ago
> they would try to stop it if the law allowed What law? They locked down iPhone and law does not care. How is it different for Mac? The could've locked down their M1 Macs, but they deliberately chose not to.
- lifeisstillgood 5y ago
  I think the parent comment was refering to law(s) preventing reverse engineering of hardware - thus "Apple would prevent people reverse engineering the M1 if they could". "locked down" from your comment as I understand it, is just making it hard to gain root on the device. Nothing in most Western law prevents you or I from jailbreaking the phone or cracking it open and looking at it under a microscope or whatever. Thats good. What would be perfect is of course publish schematics and manuals etc.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
xenadu02 5y ago
The Mac remains the Mac. That is not changing. That has been repeated by Apple executives publicly many times. Part of the Mac's heritage is that you can turn off the guard rails and take control of your system, including installing things like kernel extensions. These are not things most users should need to do - secure by default is very important - but they remain possible. Others have documented the engineering that went into a new boot system for the M1 to make multi-boot and custom kernels possible. Engineering that would be pointless if no one were expected to use it.

deregulateMed 5y ago

Verticle integration is going to make it low quality soon. Today it's an average expensive chip, tomorrow it's below average. It's really hard to keep up with the world.