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> so yes it can force immediate closure without prior judiciary approval Has any company in the past decade been forced out of business by FARA before trial? A

> so yes it can force immediate closure without prior judiciary approval Has any company in the past decade been forced out of business by FARA before trial? Any case from among this list? https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara/recent-cases https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara/recent-cases Not apples to apples.

sudosysgen 5y ago
During the Cold War, yes. As I said, this hasn't happened since the Cold War.
- hkmaxpro 5y ago
  Really? None of the prominent cases (during cold war or not) has forced any company out of business [0]. Some companies/individuals were required to register, and a few were fined, but nothing as drastic as you claimed. (“they could completely financially deprive the organization”) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Agents_Registration_Act#Prominent_cases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Agents_Registration_Ac... And China Global Television Network was forced to register as a foreign agent in 2018 due to FARA. The fact that it is still running today in the US, without having all its assets seized, speaks a lot about how HK’s NSL is much harsher than US’s FARA. Your comparison doesn’t hold at all.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    Wikipedia lists are not exhaustive sources. Do not treat them as such. The Peace Information Center was dissolved as a result of a FARA lawsuit. Individuals were eventually found not guilty, but not before 8 years of being banned from travel. Wikipedia doesn't mention the dissolution of the PIC, which is an example of why you should not treat Wikipedia articles as exhaustive. If they state something, it's likely true, but the converse is incorrect. There is even a warning to this extent somewhere on Wikipedia.
    - hkmaxpro 5y ago
      Du Bois wasn’t banned from travel because of FARA. It was another law, the McCarran-Walter Act [1], that was passed by the Congress (so not due to the sole executive power or FARA as you claimed). It’s incorrect to blame the travel ban on FARA (and executive power), since the passing of the McCarran-Walter Act had Senate’s support after Du Bois was arrested. Peace Information Center didn’t dissolve due to financial issues. (BTW, your earlier claim “FARA in the US would allow for unlimited fines” is also incorrect. Hefty, but far from unlimited, and easily covered by HK protesters [2], although financing Apple Daily is now banned by the HK NSL, which is another difference to FARA). That’s quite a bit different from the Apple Daily case, which dissolves because its assets were fully seized. Was PIC dissolve due to the lawsuit? Probably. If Apple Daily (or CGTN or RT) were hit by FARA today like PIC did, would Apple Daily dissolve? Unlikely. Equating US FARA to HK NSL would be wrong. HK NSL is way harsher. It’s like equating the freedom of press in the US and in China. Huge difference, even if the laws on their own look similar on paper. [1] https://www.aaihs.org/surveillance-state-power-and-the-activism-of-shirley-graham-du-bois/ https://www.aaihs.org/surveillance-state-power-and-the-activ... [2] https://www.hk01.com/%E6%94%BF%E6%83%85/579210/612%E5%9F%BA%E9%87%91%E7%A8%B1%E5%B7%B2%E7%B1%8C%E5%BE%97%E9%80%BE%E5%8D%83%E8%90%AC%E5%85%83-%E4%B8%80%E6%9C%88%E4%BB%BD%E9%96%8B%E6%94%AF%E9%81%94%E6%A8%99-1-500%E4%BA%BA%E6%9C%88%E6%8D%9063%E8%90%AC%E5%85%83 https://www.hk01.com/%E6%94%BF%E6%83%85/579210/612%E5%9F%BA%...

sudosysgen 5y ago

During the Cold War, yes. As I said, this hasn't happened since the Cold War.

hkmaxpro 5y ago
Really? None of the prominent cases (during cold war or not) has forced any company out of business [0]. Some companies/individuals were required to register, and a few were fined, but nothing as drastic as you claimed. (“they could completely financially deprive the organization”) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Agents_Registration_Act#Prominent_cases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Agents_Registration_Ac... And China Global Television Network was forced to register as a foreign agent in 2018 due to FARA. The fact that it is still running today in the US, without having all its assets seized, speaks a lot about how HK’s NSL is much harsher than US’s FARA. Your comparison doesn’t hold at all.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Wikipedia lists are not exhaustive sources. Do not treat them as such. The Peace Information Center was dissolved as a result of a FARA lawsuit. Individuals were eventually found not guilty, but not before 8 years of being banned from travel. Wikipedia doesn't mention the dissolution of the PIC, which is an example of why you should not treat Wikipedia articles as exhaustive. If they state something, it's likely true, but the converse is incorrect. There is even a warning to this extent somewhere on Wikipedia.
  - hkmaxpro 5y ago
    Du Bois wasn’t banned from travel because of FARA. It was another law, the McCarran-Walter Act [1], that was passed by the Congress (so not due to the sole executive power or FARA as you claimed). It’s incorrect to blame the travel ban on FARA (and executive power), since the passing of the McCarran-Walter Act had Senate’s support after Du Bois was arrested. Peace Information Center didn’t dissolve due to financial issues. (BTW, your earlier claim “FARA in the US would allow for unlimited fines” is also incorrect. Hefty, but far from unlimited, and easily covered by HK protesters [2], although financing Apple Daily is now banned by the HK NSL, which is another difference to FARA). That’s quite a bit different from the Apple Daily case, which dissolves because its assets were fully seized. Was PIC dissolve due to the lawsuit? Probably. If Apple Daily (or CGTN or RT) were hit by FARA today like PIC did, would Apple Daily dissolve? Unlikely. Equating US FARA to HK NSL would be wrong. HK NSL is way harsher. It’s like equating the freedom of press in the US and in China. Huge difference, even if the laws on their own look similar on paper. [1] https://www.aaihs.org/surveillance-state-power-and-the-activism-of-shirley-graham-du-bois/ https://www.aaihs.org/surveillance-state-power-and-the-activ... [2] https://www.hk01.com/%E6%94%BF%E6%83%85/579210/612%E5%9F%BA%E9%87%91%E7%A8%B1%E5%B7%B2%E7%B1%8C%E5%BE%97%E9%80%BE%E5%8D%83%E8%90%AC%E5%85%83-%E4%B8%80%E6%9C%88%E4%BB%BD%E9%96%8B%E6%94%AF%E9%81%94%E6%A8%99-1-500%E4%BA%BA%E6%9C%88%E6%8D%9063%E8%90%AC%E5%85%83 https://www.hk01.com/%E6%94%BF%E6%83%85/579210/612%E5%9F%BA%...