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I tried so hard to integrate into the Google ecosystem. I had a Gmail account and Google Talk to start. Eventually an Android phone, on Project Fi, with Hangout

I tried so hard to integrate into the Google ecosystem. I had a Gmail account and Google Talk to start. Eventually an Android phone, on Project Fi, with Hangouts and SMS (so I could send SMS over the internet). I upgraded from Gmail to Inbox. Then when they ditched that for Allo and Duo I tried to switch to those. Then I lost SMS on my computer because it got removed from Hangouts. Then I tried to switch to Google voice after they redid that, but you couldn't have Google voice with Fi...I also uploaded all my music to Google music. All my RSS in Google reader. I had a Google+ account. Multiple Google pixels. I really thought Google was going to be the answer for a completely integrated, non-Apple online life. Anyways, long story short, after endless frustration trying to get everything to work seamlessly, I ditched Google entirely. My email is now IMAP. I have multiple accounts in one app. My calendar and contacts are now WebDAV. Every other app I use on PC and mobile can integrate with them. My messaging is now Element/Matrix with bridges to whatever other services I need. My search is DuckDuckGo, browser is Firefox, etc. Currently, everything is as integrated, or more integrated, than it was with Google, and worlds more stable. Somehow, despite being huge and having all the data and basically a monopoly, they still can't integrate to save their lives.

fastball 5y ago
Which service do you use for CalDAV / CardDAV? I've been trying to migrate from a gmail account to my own personal domain, but my current provider doesn't support those so I want to move on to someone else. The thing that annoys me most is that (as far as I can tell) only the big name providers have integrated mail/caldav/carddav, if you use a bring-your-own-domain solution they need to be added as 3 separate accounts (at least on iOS/macOS).
- arvindamirtaa 5y ago
  +1 I've been looking for a sane calendar service that's not Google calendar and there's just nothing that's open-standards compatible.
  - danieldk 5y ago
    Fastmail supports CalDAV (as does iCloud).
  - Ndymium 5y ago
    I use mailbox.org that has CardDAV and CalDAV in addition to email. I use DAVx⁵ for syncing to my Android phone. Mailbox.org's web UI is clunky but I rarely use it for anything other than extending the subscription. The calendar/contact sync and email have worked well.
    - ForHackernews 5y ago
      +1 for DAVx⁵. It was free on F-Droid, but I've paid for it anyway because I want to support the developer (and also I think it's a nice touch making it free on F-Droid but charging on commercial app stores).
  - brongondwana 5y ago
    Fastmail's calendar is built on the Cyrus IMAP server's CalDAV support, which does all the open-standards. It also has the upcoming JMAP Calendaring support and JSCalendar (soon to be an RFC) format. There's a couple of other good CalDAV servers out there too, though of course as Fastmail CEO I can't really advertise anybody else :p
    - arvindamirtaa 5y ago
      If that ain't the way to sell something, I don't know what is! Will check it out right away :)
      - brongondwana 5y ago
        It's definitely a sell, no freebies (well, apart from the 30 day trial)
- kiwijamo 5y ago
  Fastmail is fantastic if you have an iOS device. They provide a file which you simply download/open on your iOS device and it automatically configures your phone to access FastMail mail, calendar, contacts, etc. I believe they use the same mechanism that corporates use to configure employees phones. Could not be more easier and you get to use all of Apple's native apps. iOS + Fastmail is the best combo I've found so far for easy Mail/Contacts/Calendar independent of the big giants.
- rswail 5y ago
  Yet another +1 for Fastmail. Long time customer when I got sick of running my own IMAP/SMTP about 5+ years ago. It has IMAP, CalDAV, CardDAV. It has a snappy and responsive web interface and their iOS app is equally as good. They have configuration of profiles for MacOS and iOS down (I can't talk to other environments). I have a bunch of domains doing email through there, but I run my own DNS. I had a need to configure things that Fastmail's DNS doesn't deal with (IPv6 etc) but for general use, it's great. Properly configured SPF, DKIM, DMARC, good spam filtering, easy contact managenment etc.
- pmlnr 5y ago
  self-hosted options: nextcloud, radicale, baikal, cyrus.
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  Another +1 for Fastmail and a referral link for 10% off your first year (or up to 12 months) if you decide to try it: https://ref.fm/u25202288 https://ref.fm/u25202288
fossuser 5y ago
I used Google Voice when they first acquired it - it was years early and really ahead of things back then. Texting from the web, voice transcription for messages, could ring multiple numbers. Then they did nothing with it for maybe seven years? MMS would silently fail so people inviting you to events via group chat or sending you a photo would just think you were ignoring them. Hangouts came and the mess with that and sms was worse. I had nexus phones back then which also had turn by turn navigation before the iPhone did. Huge missed opportunity, years wasted. When the iPhone 5 came out and Apple Maps shipped turn by turn nav and eventually iMessage did everything voice did but better I switched and never went back. Google’s software consumer stack sucks. I also tried to like it - it’s a mostly crappy mix of stuff that gets dropped, ignored, and poorly integrated. At the same time Apple’s stuff has improved year over year. Out of all the large tech companies I’m most bearish about Google’s future - they seem aimless. Deepmind is cool, but Google better hope that ad money machine never stops printing.
- busymom0 5y ago
  > At the same time Apple’s stuff has improved year over year. Out of all the large tech companies I’m most bearish about Google’s future - they seem aimless. Deepmind is cool, but Google better hope that ad money machine never stops printing. As an iOS user, I feel the opposite in most areas except calling/messaging/facetime. I find Apple software to be severely limiting their own hardware. Their iPads are such excellent devices yet severely limited because of iOS. If iOS hadn't done calling/messaging/FaceTime right, I would have completely ditched them.
  - fossuser 5y ago
    I agree there’s a lot more potential for iPad hardware UI, but also think they’ve improved year over year. It’ll be interesting to see what they work out for iPad OS to make it more powerful. They’re obviously not willing to just slap a standard PC OS on there. I’d guess they’re going to come up with new stuff from first principles as best they can for it (even if that means limiting it in the short term).
    - 5y ago
busymom0 5y ago
> My email is now IMAP > WebDAV Can you explain how you implemented these too?
- mr_o47 5y ago
  What’s WebDAV I’m just curious to know
  - 0x0nyandesu 5y ago
    It's calenders events over http(s) with ftp-like file transfer (yes still over http)
  - tannhaeuser 5y ago
    WebDAV is a fairly portable file (or "resource") transfer and remote directory listing etc. protocol over HTTP designed such that it doesn't conflict with regular HTTP operations (GET, POST) send from browsers and implemented by traditional web servers to replace late-1990s FTP-based site maintenance practices by a webserver-integrated facility. It uses HTTP PUT operations (not normally send from browsers unless using JavaScript) and introduces WebDAV-only HTTP verbs (COPY, LOCK, MKCOL, PROPFIND, etc.). It uses XML payloads for representing directory listings and arbitrary file metadata attributes. In the context of this thread, the add-on protocol CalDAV is meant, which specializes the "resource" concept to calendars and scheduling events. There's also a much more elaborate XML-leaning protocol for messaging called XMPP.
ekianjo 5y ago
> . Somehow, despite being huge and having all the data and basically a monopoly, they still can't integrate to save their lives. In a way its a blessing for other smaller companies to perform better. Dinosaurs may have all the money in the world but it does not make them better in execution.
reirob 5y ago
Thanks for laying out alternatives. Others were already asking about Calendar, but additionally I am curious if you found a solution for Maps/Navigation and Photo syncronisation and sharing. I'm still trying to find a migration path off from Google...
- COGlory 5y ago
  Photo sync I use Nextcloud for. It will automatically upload my photos to my Nextcloud instance. That takes a bit of effort though, because you have to set up a Nextcloud server.
modeless 5y ago
> Then I lost SMS on my computer because it got removed from Hangouts This isn't true, if you were a Fi subscriber. Fi subscribers were able to keep using Hangouts SMS up until they launched the replacement, Fi support in Messages for Web. There was no time where Web SMS was unsupported. The transition worked reasonably well for me. I do miss the Gmail integration, and it's lame that you can't have RCS enabled if you want Web support (of course Hangouts never supported RCS anyway so it's not a regression, and hopefully it will be fixed someday). But otherwise it's a fine replacement and I use it every day.
- koheripbal 5y ago
  I'm confused. I have Fi and I lost SMS in Hangouts as well as the ability to call in hangouts. Now I need to separately open google voice website to get those features. It's infuriating.
  - modeless 5y ago
    Yes, you lost SMS in Hangouts. But you didn't lose SMS on the web. The deprecation of SMS in Hangouts was delayed (for Fi subscribers only) until the replacement web SMS solution was ready. I agree, as I mentioned, that the loss of Gmail integration is annoying. But the ability to use SMS on the web, without requiring a connection to your phone at all, is still there. There was no time period where Web SMS wasn't available for Fi subscribers.
techrat 5y ago
Early adopter curse. I remember buying the first DVD Recorder on the market and being pissed later on that I couldn't burn the (much better) DVD+R type discs in my drive. I never switched from my carrier to Project Fi. Never switched to Hangouts. Never switched to Inbox. Never switched to Allo and Duo. So as far as I'm concerned... Gmail and Google Voice have pretty much always been working as intended for me. It's kind of what you have to expect when you consider that we are Google's beta testers. Gmail was in beta for YEARS. If something new shows up, I may wait a year and see if it's still around, then maybe consider that I start using it... if I have a use for it. In the end, Gmail is worth it to me over having to run my own email server. Never again. Ugh.
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  Google's beta in production strategy worked great when they were turning whole categories on their heads. I'm not sure it still works for them given the reputational damage. They're creating an in for more focused upstarts to swoop in and disrupt them piece by piece.
  - techrat 5y ago
    My concern is that there really isn't much left to 'turn on their heads' anymore. When Gmail came around, webmail was mostly hot garbage. Things just have matured since and well... I can now almost understand the culture issue that Google has now: Needing to reinvent something new instead of making what exists better. (And that's also entirely the problem) Can't wait for Project Back to the Basics. If it ever happens.
yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
What are you doing now for SMS? Google Voice alternatives are surprisingly thin on the ground.
julienreszka 5y ago
I read this the Linkin Park way https://youtu.be/eVTXPUF4Oz4?t=53 https://youtu.be/eVTXPUF4Oz4?t=53
reader_mode 5y ago
I don't think Google or Microsoft have the culture to compete with Apple in consumer space. Microsoft is all about milking enterprises and Google seems to be geared towards launching random projects and then getting them stuck in limbo or killed off. This is sad for me because I hate how locked down Apple ecosystem is, I constantly get rubbed by their store policy that I stick with Android, but life is much simpler in the Apple ecosystem and none of their competitors look like they have what it takes to compete (eg. Samsung software is a joke even when the hardware is competitive).
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  I think they easily outpace Apple in the consumer space. What areas do you think Apple does better?
bryanrasmussen 5y ago
this seems pretty pertinent here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27575640 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27575640 and I guess it answers my question from that thread - Google still doesn't get platforms.
vl 5y ago
But your integration into Google ecosystem was not an objective, and this is not a mess at all, it worked as intended - a lot of people got promos! Just imagine if there is a consistent, coherent multi-year strategy, it would be way harder to get a promotion. (I actually worked on one of the mentioned messaging products, it was a shitshow)
- bsaul 5y ago
  without giving names or identifiable details, could you explain what a "shitshow" looks like in those kind of environments ? Is it like having an insane amount of validation, or everchanging requirements, or huge technical constraints, demotivated or unqualified people, etc.. what is it ? i still remember the time when google was at the forefront of web app innovation, and it was probably already quite big. So i'm really curious to know what are the things that make it different today.
  - vl 5y ago
    The name of product in question hypothetically might have started with A and ended with o. This was last-ditch effort to outwhatsapp WhatsApp. Essentially this is high-risk high-reward project. Google comp is not setup to deal with this. Some people who were early in the game and shipped initial version got their good reviews/promos and quickly left after ship. Rest of the team started a shaky ride trying to find that extra secret feature that will turn this ship around, while metrics were not so good. This lead to worse reviews, management reshuffles, unsteady short-term micromanagement. Which in turn motivated more people to change projects. The failure of enthusiastic VP of Communications and Photos (I kid you fucking not, he traded Hangouts for Photos, he wanted to shutdown Hangouts, but it turned out a lot of enterprise customers depend on it. So GSuite/GCP said they are going to take over Hangouts, so after some politicking he traded it for Photos). Anyway, he’s failure is to setup and manage this project in such a way when smallest negative result doesn’t lead to a shitshow.
wffurr 5y ago
Meanwhile I’m using Google stuff just fine. Skip the fads and stick to the basics, and it all still works. I’m glad your setup works for you, but Google apps haven’t been all that frustrating for me. I’ve been using Gmail and Hangouts since they were introduced, migrated from Google Talk to Hangouts which was fairly transparent except I had to stop using Pidgin and use the web app instead. Still using Hangouts all these years later until they make me switch to Chat. It works fine. There is a chance I try to get my family and friends to switch to Element or something instead of Chat, but it’s unlikely, since Google will provide a smooth switchover and we’ll all just have to tap a button to switch, and they’ll interoperate. I got a Google Voice number many years ago too, but only use it for forwarding, never set up Fi, and it still works fine. Never enabled the hangouts SMS integration, because I can already get texts on the computer. I skipped out on Allo and Duo; they seemed like a lost cause from the start. Never really posted much on Google+ anyway. My music was in Google Play and now it’s in YouTube Music, but I mostly stream anyway. I don’t love the new interface, but it mostly works fine. I had lots of RSS feeds in Google Reader, but NewsBlur had a simple import and works just as well as Reader ever did.
- lukeschlather 5y ago
  There's not even a button. Google Chat seems to "just work" already. I am cautiously optimistic. It actually also seems better than Hangouts. https://mail.google.com/chat https://mail.google.com/chat actually works well. Pageup/pagedown works, which is a nice change. "Google Chat" feels a lot like they finally fixed all the bugs they introduced when they replaced GChat with Hangouts.
RikNieu 5y ago
I tried using another search engine, like Duck, but they are horrible. I don't know if it's because I'm not in the US, but it's BARELY usable.

fastball 5y ago

Which service do you use for CalDAV / CardDAV? I've been trying to migrate from a gmail account to my own personal domain, but my current provider doesn't support those so I want to move on to someone else. The thing that annoys me most is that (as far as I can tell) only the big name providers have integrated mail/caldav/carddav, if you use a bring-your-own-domain solution they need to be added as 3 separate accounts (at least on iOS/macOS).

arvindamirtaa 5y ago
+1 I've been looking for a sane calendar service that's not Google calendar and there's just nothing that's open-standards compatible.
- danieldk 5y ago
  Fastmail supports CalDAV (as does iCloud).
- Ndymium 5y ago
  I use mailbox.org that has CardDAV and CalDAV in addition to email. I use DAVx⁵ for syncing to my Android phone. Mailbox.org's web UI is clunky but I rarely use it for anything other than extending the subscription. The calendar/contact sync and email have worked well.
  - ForHackernews 5y ago
    +1 for DAVx⁵. It was free on F-Droid, but I've paid for it anyway because I want to support the developer (and also I think it's a nice touch making it free on F-Droid but charging on commercial app stores).
- brongondwana 5y ago
  Fastmail's calendar is built on the Cyrus IMAP server's CalDAV support, which does all the open-standards. It also has the upcoming JMAP Calendaring support and JSCalendar (soon to be an RFC) format. There's a couple of other good CalDAV servers out there too, though of course as Fastmail CEO I can't really advertise anybody else :p
  - arvindamirtaa 5y ago
    If that ain't the way to sell something, I don't know what is! Will check it out right away :)
    - brongondwana 5y ago
      It's definitely a sell, no freebies (well, apart from the 30 day trial)
kiwijamo 5y ago
Fastmail is fantastic if you have an iOS device. They provide a file which you simply download/open on your iOS device and it automatically configures your phone to access FastMail mail, calendar, contacts, etc. I believe they use the same mechanism that corporates use to configure employees phones. Could not be more easier and you get to use all of Apple's native apps. iOS + Fastmail is the best combo I've found so far for easy Mail/Contacts/Calendar independent of the big giants.
rswail 5y ago
Yet another +1 for Fastmail. Long time customer when I got sick of running my own IMAP/SMTP about 5+ years ago. It has IMAP, CalDAV, CardDAV. It has a snappy and responsive web interface and their iOS app is equally as good. They have configuration of profiles for MacOS and iOS down (I can't talk to other environments). I have a bunch of domains doing email through there, but I run my own DNS. I had a need to configure things that Fastmail's DNS doesn't deal with (IPv6 etc) but for general use, it's great. Properly configured SPF, DKIM, DMARC, good spam filtering, easy contact managenment etc.
pmlnr 5y ago
self-hosted options: nextcloud, radicale, baikal, cyrus.
mkr-hn 5y ago
Another +1 for Fastmail and a referral link for 10% off your first year (or up to 12 months) if you decide to try it: https://ref.fm/u25202288 https://ref.fm/u25202288

fossuser 5y ago

I used Google Voice when they first acquired it - it was years early and really ahead of things back then. Texting from the web, voice transcription for messages, could ring multiple numbers. Then they did nothing with it for maybe seven years? MMS would silently fail so people inviting you to events via group chat or sending you a photo would just think you were ignoring them. Hangouts came and the mess with that and sms was worse. I had nexus phones back then which also had turn by turn navigation before the iPhone did. Huge missed opportunity, years wasted. When the iPhone 5 came out and Apple Maps shipped turn by turn nav and eventually iMessage did everything voice did but better I switched and never went back. Google’s software consumer stack sucks. I also tried to like it - it’s a mostly crappy mix of stuff that gets dropped, ignored, and poorly integrated. At the same time Apple’s stuff has improved year over year. Out of all the large tech companies I’m most bearish about Google’s future - they seem aimless. Deepmind is cool, but Google better hope that ad money machine never stops printing.

busymom0 5y ago
> At the same time Apple’s stuff has improved year over year. Out of all the large tech companies I’m most bearish about Google’s future - they seem aimless. Deepmind is cool, but Google better hope that ad money machine never stops printing. As an iOS user, I feel the opposite in most areas except calling/messaging/facetime. I find Apple software to be severely limiting their own hardware. Their iPads are such excellent devices yet severely limited because of iOS. If iOS hadn't done calling/messaging/FaceTime right, I would have completely ditched them.
- fossuser 5y ago
  I agree there’s a lot more potential for iPad hardware UI, but also think they’ve improved year over year. It’ll be interesting to see what they work out for iPad OS to make it more powerful. They’re obviously not willing to just slap a standard PC OS on there. I’d guess they’re going to come up with new stuff from first principles as best they can for it (even if that means limiting it in the short term).
  - 5y ago

busymom0 5y ago

> My email is now IMAP > WebDAV Can you explain how you implemented these too?

mr_o47 5y ago
What’s WebDAV I’m just curious to know
- 0x0nyandesu 5y ago
  It's calenders events over http(s) with ftp-like file transfer (yes still over http)
- tannhaeuser 5y ago
  WebDAV is a fairly portable file (or "resource") transfer and remote directory listing etc. protocol over HTTP designed such that it doesn't conflict with regular HTTP operations (GET, POST) send from browsers and implemented by traditional web servers to replace late-1990s FTP-based site maintenance practices by a webserver-integrated facility. It uses HTTP PUT operations (not normally send from browsers unless using JavaScript) and introduces WebDAV-only HTTP verbs (COPY, LOCK, MKCOL, PROPFIND, etc.). It uses XML payloads for representing directory listings and arbitrary file metadata attributes. In the context of this thread, the add-on protocol CalDAV is meant, which specializes the "resource" concept to calendars and scheduling events. There's also a much more elaborate XML-leaning protocol for messaging called XMPP.

ekianjo 5y ago

> . Somehow, despite being huge and having all the data and basically a monopoly, they still can't integrate to save their lives. In a way its a blessing for other smaller companies to perform better. Dinosaurs may have all the money in the world but it does not make them better in execution.

reirob 5y ago

Thanks for laying out alternatives. Others were already asking about Calendar, but additionally I am curious if you found a solution for Maps/Navigation and Photo syncronisation and sharing. I'm still trying to find a migration path off from Google...

COGlory 5y ago
Photo sync I use Nextcloud for. It will automatically upload my photos to my Nextcloud instance. That takes a bit of effort though, because you have to set up a Nextcloud server.

modeless 5y ago

> Then I lost SMS on my computer because it got removed from Hangouts This isn't true, if you were a Fi subscriber. Fi subscribers were able to keep using Hangouts SMS up until they launched the replacement, Fi support in Messages for Web. There was no time where Web SMS was unsupported. The transition worked reasonably well for me. I do miss the Gmail integration, and it's lame that you can't have RCS enabled if you want Web support (of course Hangouts never supported RCS anyway so it's not a regression, and hopefully it will be fixed someday). But otherwise it's a fine replacement and I use it every day.

koheripbal 5y ago
I'm confused. I have Fi and I lost SMS in Hangouts as well as the ability to call in hangouts. Now I need to separately open google voice website to get those features. It's infuriating.
- modeless 5y ago
  Yes, you lost SMS in Hangouts. But you didn't lose SMS on the web. The deprecation of SMS in Hangouts was delayed (for Fi subscribers only) until the replacement web SMS solution was ready. I agree, as I mentioned, that the loss of Gmail integration is annoying. But the ability to use SMS on the web, without requiring a connection to your phone at all, is still there. There was no time period where Web SMS wasn't available for Fi subscribers.

techrat 5y ago

Early adopter curse. I remember buying the first DVD Recorder on the market and being pissed later on that I couldn't burn the (much better) DVD+R type discs in my drive. I never switched from my carrier to Project Fi. Never switched to Hangouts. Never switched to Inbox. Never switched to Allo and Duo. So as far as I'm concerned... Gmail and Google Voice have pretty much always been working as intended for me. It's kind of what you have to expect when you consider that we are Google's beta testers. Gmail was in beta for YEARS. If something new shows up, I may wait a year and see if it's still around, then maybe consider that I start using it... if I have a use for it. In the end, Gmail is worth it to me over having to run my own email server. Never again. Ugh.

mkr-hn 5y ago
Google's beta in production strategy worked great when they were turning whole categories on their heads. I'm not sure it still works for them given the reputational damage. They're creating an in for more focused upstarts to swoop in and disrupt them piece by piece.
- techrat 5y ago
  My concern is that there really isn't much left to 'turn on their heads' anymore. When Gmail came around, webmail was mostly hot garbage. Things just have matured since and well... I can now almost understand the culture issue that Google has now: Needing to reinvent something new instead of making what exists better. (And that's also entirely the problem) Can't wait for Project Back to the Basics. If it ever happens.

yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago

What are you doing now for SMS? Google Voice alternatives are surprisingly thin on the ground.

julienreszka 5y ago

I read this the Linkin Park way https://youtu.be/eVTXPUF4Oz4?t=53 https://youtu.be/eVTXPUF4Oz4?t=53

reader_mode 5y ago

I don't think Google or Microsoft have the culture to compete with Apple in consumer space. Microsoft is all about milking enterprises and Google seems to be geared towards launching random projects and then getting them stuck in limbo or killed off. This is sad for me because I hate how locked down Apple ecosystem is, I constantly get rubbed by their store policy that I stick with Android, but life is much simpler in the Apple ecosystem and none of their competitors look like they have what it takes to compete (eg. Samsung software is a joke even when the hardware is competitive).

encryptluks2 5y ago
I think they easily outpace Apple in the consumer space. What areas do you think Apple does better?

bryanrasmussen 5y ago

this seems pretty pertinent here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27575640 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27575640 and I guess it answers my question from that thread - Google still doesn't get platforms.

vl 5y ago

But your integration into Google ecosystem was not an objective, and this is not a mess at all, it worked as intended - a lot of people got promos! Just imagine if there is a consistent, coherent multi-year strategy, it would be way harder to get a promotion. (I actually worked on one of the mentioned messaging products, it was a shitshow)

bsaul 5y ago
without giving names or identifiable details, could you explain what a "shitshow" looks like in those kind of environments ? Is it like having an insane amount of validation, or everchanging requirements, or huge technical constraints, demotivated or unqualified people, etc.. what is it ? i still remember the time when google was at the forefront of web app innovation, and it was probably already quite big. So i'm really curious to know what are the things that make it different today.
- vl 5y ago
  The name of product in question hypothetically might have started with A and ended with o. This was last-ditch effort to outwhatsapp WhatsApp. Essentially this is high-risk high-reward project. Google comp is not setup to deal with this. Some people who were early in the game and shipped initial version got their good reviews/promos and quickly left after ship. Rest of the team started a shaky ride trying to find that extra secret feature that will turn this ship around, while metrics were not so good. This lead to worse reviews, management reshuffles, unsteady short-term micromanagement. Which in turn motivated more people to change projects. The failure of enthusiastic VP of Communications and Photos (I kid you fucking not, he traded Hangouts for Photos, he wanted to shutdown Hangouts, but it turned out a lot of enterprise customers depend on it. So GSuite/GCP said they are going to take over Hangouts, so after some politicking he traded it for Photos). Anyway, he’s failure is to setup and manage this project in such a way when smallest negative result doesn’t lead to a shitshow.

wffurr 5y ago

Meanwhile I’m using Google stuff just fine. Skip the fads and stick to the basics, and it all still works. I’m glad your setup works for you, but Google apps haven’t been all that frustrating for me. I’ve been using Gmail and Hangouts since they were introduced, migrated from Google Talk to Hangouts which was fairly transparent except I had to stop using Pidgin and use the web app instead. Still using Hangouts all these years later until they make me switch to Chat. It works fine. There is a chance I try to get my family and friends to switch to Element or something instead of Chat, but it’s unlikely, since Google will provide a smooth switchover and we’ll all just have to tap a button to switch, and they’ll interoperate. I got a Google Voice number many years ago too, but only use it for forwarding, never set up Fi, and it still works fine. Never enabled the hangouts SMS integration, because I can already get texts on the computer. I skipped out on Allo and Duo; they seemed like a lost cause from the start. Never really posted much on Google+ anyway. My music was in Google Play and now it’s in YouTube Music, but I mostly stream anyway. I don’t love the new interface, but it mostly works fine. I had lots of RSS feeds in Google Reader, but NewsBlur had a simple import and works just as well as Reader ever did.

lukeschlather 5y ago
There's not even a button. Google Chat seems to "just work" already. I am cautiously optimistic. It actually also seems better than Hangouts. https://mail.google.com/chat https://mail.google.com/chat actually works well. Pageup/pagedown works, which is a nice change. "Google Chat" feels a lot like they finally fixed all the bugs they introduced when they replaced GChat with Hangouts.

RikNieu 5y ago

I tried using another search engine, like Duck, but they are horrible. I don't know if it's because I'm not in the US, but it's BARELY usable.