3 ms·

What radar did Tesla use? What does the rest of the industry use?

ra7 5y ago
They are using Continental 2D radars from 2014. The rest of the SDC industry uses what is called 4D high resolution imaging radars. That's why Teslas have poor performance like phantom braking under bridges.
- jiofih 5y ago
  What models on the market use 4D imaging radars? All info I can find shows products releases in the past 1-2 years for future vehicles.
  - ra7 5y ago
    https://arberobotics.com/product/ https://arberobotics.com/product/ is one. It was rumored Tesla themselves wanted to use Arbe radars, but evidently they have ditched the plan and gone radar less. I think AutoX from China is planning to use Arbe as well. Waymo has its own custom developed 4D imaging radar and I imagine most of the other SDC players have their own versions.
    - jiofih 5y ago
      Sounds like “none”.
      - ra7 5y ago
        None what? I just gave you an example of Waymo using 4D imaging radar [1]. Aurora also uses imaging radar [2], Mobileye as well [3]. AutoX is going to start using Arbe radars. All of them are leading players in SDC industry. [1] https://blog.waymo.com/2020/03/introducing-5th-generation-waymo-driver.html https://blog.waymo.com/2020/03/introducing-5th-generation-wa... [2] https://aurora.tech/technology/driver https://aurora.tech/technology/driver [3] https://www.mobileye.com/blog/radar-lidar-next-generation-active-sensors/ https://www.mobileye.com/blog/radar-lidar-next-generation-ac...
        jiofih 5y ago
        You said “everyone else” besides Tesla uses 4D radar, and “that's why Teslas have poor performance like phantom braking”. But there are zero production vehicles on the road using this tech right now.
        ra7 5y ago
        I said “The rest of the SDC industry uses 4D radars” in a follow up comment, which clarifies I don’t mean car manufacturers. Given this post is about radar usage in self driving and how Tesla/Karpathy touts their capabilities, I compare them to other SDC players, not other car manufacturers who are not in the game. And their SDC competitors are running away because they have the newer 4D radars.
        jiofih 5y ago
        Well, until these are actually adopted by a car company and out on the road, any claims about performance are meaningless. Your original comment implied Tesla chose to use inferior tech compare to the market which is not true in the slightest.
        ra7 5y ago
        > Your original comment implied Tesla chose to use inferior tech compare to the market which is not true in the slightest. Only if you don’t consider Waymo, Cruise, Mobileye and others as Tesla competitors.
        sajacy 5y ago
        Technical yet casual readers on HN will compare Tesla to other car manufacturers before CV programs in self-driving startups. +1 to the other commenter (grandparent comment).
        opsya4 5y ago
        As a radar engineer, I am not happy about repeating hearsay discussions. Radar has a range resolution and an angular resolution. Andrej completely omitted this fundamental aspect in his talk. In my humble opinion, Andrej needs a real Radar engineer in his group before making such a statement in his talk. Nobody can be smart for all topics, which makes all humble also.

ra7 5y ago

They are using Continental 2D radars from 2014. The rest of the SDC industry uses what is called 4D high resolution imaging radars. That's why Teslas have poor performance like phantom braking under bridges.

jiofih 5y ago
What models on the market use 4D imaging radars? All info I can find shows products releases in the past 1-2 years for future vehicles.
- ra7 5y ago
  https://arberobotics.com/product/ https://arberobotics.com/product/ is one. It was rumored Tesla themselves wanted to use Arbe radars, but evidently they have ditched the plan and gone radar less. I think AutoX from China is planning to use Arbe as well. Waymo has its own custom developed 4D imaging radar and I imagine most of the other SDC players have their own versions.
  - jiofih 5y ago
    Sounds like “none”.
    - ra7 5y ago
      None what? I just gave you an example of Waymo using 4D imaging radar [1]. Aurora also uses imaging radar [2], Mobileye as well [3]. AutoX is going to start using Arbe radars. All of them are leading players in SDC industry. [1] https://blog.waymo.com/2020/03/introducing-5th-generation-waymo-driver.html https://blog.waymo.com/2020/03/introducing-5th-generation-wa... [2] https://aurora.tech/technology/driver https://aurora.tech/technology/driver [3] https://www.mobileye.com/blog/radar-lidar-next-generation-active-sensors/ https://www.mobileye.com/blog/radar-lidar-next-generation-ac...
      - jiofih 5y ago
        You said “everyone else” besides Tesla uses 4D radar, and “that's why Teslas have poor performance like phantom braking”. But there are zero production vehicles on the road using this tech right now.
        ra7 5y ago
        I said “The rest of the SDC industry uses 4D radars” in a follow up comment, which clarifies I don’t mean car manufacturers. Given this post is about radar usage in self driving and how Tesla/Karpathy touts their capabilities, I compare them to other SDC players, not other car manufacturers who are not in the game. And their SDC competitors are running away because they have the newer 4D radars.
        jiofih 5y ago
        Well, until these are actually adopted by a car company and out on the road, any claims about performance are meaningless. Your original comment implied Tesla chose to use inferior tech compare to the market which is not true in the slightest.
        ra7 5y ago
        > Your original comment implied Tesla chose to use inferior tech compare to the market which is not true in the slightest. Only if you don’t consider Waymo, Cruise, Mobileye and others as Tesla competitors.
        sajacy 5y ago
        Technical yet casual readers on HN will compare Tesla to other car manufacturers before CV programs in self-driving startups. +1 to the other commenter (grandparent comment).
        opsya4 5y ago
        As a radar engineer, I am not happy about repeating hearsay discussions. Radar has a range resolution and an angular resolution. Andrej completely omitted this fundamental aspect in his talk. In my humble opinion, Andrej needs a real Radar engineer in his group before making such a statement in his talk. Nobody can be smart for all topics, which makes all humble also.