3 ms·

As a British-born Canadian, my view is they have a knack of shooting themselves in the foot without realizing it. When we moved to Canada we were allowed to be

As a British-born Canadian, my view is they have a knack of shooting themselves in the foot without realizing it. When we moved to Canada we were allowed to be schooled in English. Within a year or two they passed a new law that said you could only be educated in English if your parents were educated in English in either Quebec or Canada (don't remember which). Coming from England, my parent's education didn't qualify. There was no grandfathering, letting us continue in English because we'd already started in English. My parents didn't know French, and wouldn't be able to assist in learning it, or helping with homework. In response, we left Quebec and moved to the Toronto area. If they hadn't passed their law, I would have stayed, made French friends, shopped at French stores, and generally been immersed in the culture they want to protect, and learned French. My brothers would have too. Instead, we all vaguely know grade-9 core French, but not enough to actually communicate with anyone. Pretty much the exact opposite of what they want. Years later, they enacted French language laws, harassing stores over English signs, talking English to English customers, etc, all making it harder to be a tourist location. All their efforts seem to be more effective at driving away the non-French as opposed to spreading adoption and appreciation of French. Maybe that's their real plan. Their calls for separation are another sign that driving away the non-French may be the real goal... they want to be left alone... Which just seems incredibly short-sighted. If you're too isolated from the rest of the world, the rest of the world will move on without you.

cratermoon 5y ago
> All their efforts seem to be more effective at driving away the non-French Hmmmm...
kiliancs 5y ago
> Their calls for separation are another sign that driving away the non-French may be the real goal... [...] If you're too isolated from the rest of the world, the rest of the world will move on without you. Why do you see being independent as isolating from the world? I see it more as directly integrated rather than in a diluted way. I have noticed most countries don't undo their independence willingly, so it must not be that bad.
- 1000100_1000101 5y ago
  The problem is not about being independent, it's the zero tolerance criminalization of non-French that is isolating. It's reducing likely immigration (see my initial post), and the language laws around talking to customers and signage are likely harming tourism. I saw recently that some government forms are no longer going to be available in English. They're not being proud of being French, but actively hostile to anyone who isn't a francophone. With fewer people visiting the province, and bringing diversity into Quebec, and with Quebec families wanting French, being less likely to visit anything outside of Quebec, then yes, it comes isolating. Sure, some will learn another language and travel, but their government sure is working hard to ensure that's less likely. Early bi-lingualism can make it easier to pick up more languages. Equally, forced early mono-lingualism will make it harder for future Quebecois kids to break out of Quebec. Europe has fairly open borders. Many countries citizens speak multiple languages. A store keeper in Italy won't risk a $2,000 fine for greeting a long-time foreign customer in their native tongue, but that's a risk in Quebec. They even proposed turning everyone into snitches by splitting the fines with people who turn in Anglophones ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOxpLv1j5fg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOxpLv1j5fg ). How can all these European countries live with their openness? Is Italy living in fear of becoming non-Italian? Is Germany living in fear of becoming non-German? Outside of Europe, is Japan at risk of becoming non-Japanese? No. Everywhere else has managed to retain their culture without being actively hostile to their neighbours.
moltar 5y ago
All of their methods are working as intended. These are extreme populist measures to appease the average nationalist-bended Québécois and guarantee re-election.
afterburner 5y ago
> All their efforts seem to be more effective at driving away the non-French That is the goal

cratermoon 5y ago

> All their efforts seem to be more effective at driving away the non-French Hmmmm...

kiliancs 5y ago

> Their calls for separation are another sign that driving away the non-French may be the real goal... [...] If you're too isolated from the rest of the world, the rest of the world will move on without you. Why do you see being independent as isolating from the world? I see it more as directly integrated rather than in a diluted way. I have noticed most countries don't undo their independence willingly, so it must not be that bad.

1000100_1000101 5y ago
The problem is not about being independent, it's the zero tolerance criminalization of non-French that is isolating. It's reducing likely immigration (see my initial post), and the language laws around talking to customers and signage are likely harming tourism. I saw recently that some government forms are no longer going to be available in English. They're not being proud of being French, but actively hostile to anyone who isn't a francophone. With fewer people visiting the province, and bringing diversity into Quebec, and with Quebec families wanting French, being less likely to visit anything outside of Quebec, then yes, it comes isolating. Sure, some will learn another language and travel, but their government sure is working hard to ensure that's less likely. Early bi-lingualism can make it easier to pick up more languages. Equally, forced early mono-lingualism will make it harder for future Quebecois kids to break out of Quebec. Europe has fairly open borders. Many countries citizens speak multiple languages. A store keeper in Italy won't risk a $2,000 fine for greeting a long-time foreign customer in their native tongue, but that's a risk in Quebec. They even proposed turning everyone into snitches by splitting the fines with people who turn in Anglophones ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOxpLv1j5fg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOxpLv1j5fg ). How can all these European countries live with their openness? Is Italy living in fear of becoming non-Italian? Is Germany living in fear of becoming non-German? Outside of Europe, is Japan at risk of becoming non-Japanese? No. Everywhere else has managed to retain their culture without being actively hostile to their neighbours.

moltar 5y ago

All of their methods are working as intended. These are extreme populist measures to appease the average nationalist-bended Québécois and guarantee re-election.

afterburner 5y ago

> All their efforts seem to be more effective at driving away the non-French That is the goal