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As a non-Canadian, the Quebecois seem to have a weird cultural narcissism. It's like there are all these little petty bureaucratic foistings of Quebec on the re

As a non-Canadian, the Quebecois seem to have a weird cultural narcissism. It's like there are all these little petty bureaucratic foistings of Quebec on the rest of Canada. Music that nobody wants to listen to, a language that nobody wants to learn, etc. Bizarre

salamandersauce 5y ago
TBF, this is a provincial thing and not federal so it only applies to Government of Quebec things and not the RoC.
3pt14159 5y ago
Oh come on. I speak more Russian than I do French, but even I can recognize the wonderful culture and je ne sais quoi that comes with Quebec and French Canada's influence on Canadian culture. I'm happy that they are here and that the government has measures to support their voices that would otherwise get lost.
- ant6n 5y ago
  I dunno, the Quebec je ne sais qoi and the small minded right-wing/populist Quebec nationalists often don’t seem to share the same culture.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    Québec cultural protectionism is very strong in left wing circles as well. It's really only the federalist center that caters to Anglophone montrealers that is less on board.
    - ant6n 5y ago
      Quebec left wing circles can be quite right wing/populist when it comes to language issues and nationalism. Political views don’t exist along a single linear spectrum.
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        Hmm, not sure it's quite right wing. Left wing nationalism is actually a pretty big thing in the world outside of the anglosphere and some parts of Western Europe. I'm not sure I'd apply a left-wing / right-wing label to it. A lot of people see French as a minority language in Canada that must be protected, others see it as an issue of pure nationalism, it can come from a lot of directions. It's not unique to Québec either, similar programs exist among linguistic minorities in Africa, Eastern Europe and even Asia.
- swat535 5y ago
  I live in Quebec and can speak French and English fluently. The people of Quebec are wonderful and very friendly (seriously); especially in the Montreal area where I live.. However, there is a difference in being a proud of your culture and shoving it down other people's throats. These things piss off the majority of us in Quebec because the government is wasting taxes of hard working people. They should spend it instead on infrastructure, education and healthcare.. Frankly such moves don't even help give expand the culture. The government hardly support the authors, musicians and other artists. They don't attempt to make Quebec a welcoming place for all, they double down and add even more roadblocks for outsiders to get more insights on its great culture..
klyrs 5y ago
As an American immigrant to Canada, I've gotta say, you sound pretty ignorant about Canadian culture and history. You might wanna read up before sharing such strong opinions
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
hluska 5y ago
You’re not Canadian and this is a really tricky part of understanding how the Canadian system works. But this is a Province of Québec policy and only impacts Québec government ministries. The rest of Canada has Canadian content rules codified in our Broadcasting Act. The idea is that it should create a market for art our various Ministries of Culture pay for via grants. But in practice, Canadian terrestrial radio plays one hell of a lot of Nickelback and Trooper…
1000100_1000101 5y ago
As a British-born Canadian, my view is they have a knack of shooting themselves in the foot without realizing it. When we moved to Canada we were allowed to be schooled in English. Within a year or two they passed a new law that said you could only be educated in English if your parents were educated in English in either Quebec or Canada (don't remember which). Coming from England, my parent's education didn't qualify. There was no grandfathering, letting us continue in English because we'd already started in English. My parents didn't know French, and wouldn't be able to assist in learning it, or helping with homework. In response, we left Quebec and moved to the Toronto area. If they hadn't passed their law, I would have stayed, made French friends, shopped at French stores, and generally been immersed in the culture they want to protect, and learned French. My brothers would have too. Instead, we all vaguely know grade-9 core French, but not enough to actually communicate with anyone. Pretty much the exact opposite of what they want. Years later, they enacted French language laws, harassing stores over English signs, talking English to English customers, etc, all making it harder to be a tourist location. All their efforts seem to be more effective at driving away the non-French as opposed to spreading adoption and appreciation of French. Maybe that's their real plan. Their calls for separation are another sign that driving away the non-French may be the real goal... they want to be left alone... Which just seems incredibly short-sighted. If you're too isolated from the rest of the world, the rest of the world will move on without you.
- cratermoon 5y ago
  > All their efforts seem to be more effective at driving away the non-French Hmmmm...
- kiliancs 5y ago
  > Their calls for separation are another sign that driving away the non-French may be the real goal... [...] If you're too isolated from the rest of the world, the rest of the world will move on without you. Why do you see being independent as isolating from the world? I see it more as directly integrated rather than in a diluted way. I have noticed most countries don't undo their independence willingly, so it must not be that bad.
mthoms 5y ago
They're surrounded by 300 million+ English speakers and desperately trying to keep their language and culture alive. I'm not saying I agree with this particular initiative, but this is about survival of their very culture, not narcism. What an awfully uncharitable thing to say. It's funny, if the Inuit government had a similar initiative in Nunavut to support their culture, literally no-one would have a problem with it. Make of that what you will.
- jdbakdb 5y ago
  This is not true. I would have a huge problem with the Inuit enacted a similar initiative. I find these actions to be incredibly narcissistic, sad, and take them to be fundamentally misunderstanding how culture works. I also find it hilarious. If you want to keep your culture alive, create laws that allow you to prosper economically or militarily. This will cause your culture to spread, slowing but not preventing the inevitable disappearance that some day comes to any society.
  - mthoms 5y ago
    There you have it folks. How to solve the global problem of cultural assimilation rolled up into a single paragraph. Just have more guns and/or money then your competitor (literally impossible in this case). This is a complex problem that has plagued cultures for thousands of years. If you're so confident to think you know the answer, I'd suggest it's you who is the narcissist. >This is not true. I would have a huge problem with the Inuit enacted a similar initiative. Okay, I'll correct myself. No-one I know (across three different provinces), would have a "huge" problem with a marginalized culture on the verge of extinction supporting their own culture, using their own money. But then again, people sure seem addicted to being outraged for little to no reason.
    - dang 5y ago
      "Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead." a.k.a. please don't feed the trolls https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
BlueNorth 5y ago
As a Quebecer, I will allow myself to highlight the intention behind this surprising proposal. Quebec's French-speaking artistic community is very rich and very lively. The musical tastes of Quebecers are also very diverse, in both English and French. Only, from a commercial point of view, English-speaking music enjoys a very large exposure and it is very easy to forget that other music also exists. Canada, from a constitutional point of view, officially recognizes 2 languages: English and French. Laws impose on the broadcaster a certain percentage of content in these 2 languages. However, French does not benefit from the strength of attraction of English on the North American continent. The Quebec government has therefore decided to do its part to increase the visibility of French-language music in Quebec, more specifically, Quebec French-language music. It is an action of resilience, one among many others that we feel obliged to do to avoid disappearing like all the other French-speaking populations of America.
hipparchus 5y ago
This sounds like you didn't even try to look at this from their perspective. What reads as narcissism to you reads to them as a necessity for cultural survival: is this a good way of dealing with the perceived anglophone takeover? are their fears unfounded and will Quebec still be the thriving French-speaking province it has been, a thousand years from now? I know neither answer to these questions, but I can on paper understand their sentiment: they are the only French speakers on their continent (barring the pockets in louisiana or French Guiana), and neighbours to the biggest cultural powerhouse of the last 50 years. Learning English to get better job opportunities seem like a no brainer for the majority of their youth, and leaving to the US is a dream for many of them. Their film producers, musicians, writers, and other artists are deeply talented in their own right, yet struggle to be known outside of Québec or francophone Europe. Who wants to be stuck in that market ? Some bear it, but others cater to the anglophones to benefit from the americans who export their culture to the entire rest of the world. It's nearly impossible to make it in the western world in any other way. If the Chinese ever achieve cultural rayonance as well as the Americans have achieved, or if spanish suddenly gains a much higher rate of usage in the US, I am confident thousands of anglophone will change their tune and opt a position much closer to the québécois.
- moltar 5y ago
  I think it’s a debate between wether you allow culture to propel itself or do we need to augment it and push it in some direction. If Quebec lost the French language overtime that would be an organic cultural correction in line with what the majority wants. If they didn’t want it, they’d preserve it. But if we want to shape culture and protect the past, why not go further in the past and promote indigenous languages too? They were there first. Language is an evolving tool. If we’re to protect English today from 600 years ago then we would still be speaking Germanic or something like that. https://youtu.be/8fxy6ZaMOq8 https://youtu.be/8fxy6ZaMOq8

salamandersauce 5y ago

TBF, this is a provincial thing and not federal so it only applies to Government of Quebec things and not the RoC.

3pt14159 5y ago

Oh come on. I speak more Russian than I do French, but even I can recognize the wonderful culture and je ne sais quoi that comes with Quebec and French Canada's influence on Canadian culture. I'm happy that they are here and that the government has measures to support their voices that would otherwise get lost.

ant6n 5y ago
I dunno, the Quebec je ne sais qoi and the small minded right-wing/populist Quebec nationalists often don’t seem to share the same culture.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Québec cultural protectionism is very strong in left wing circles as well. It's really only the federalist center that caters to Anglophone montrealers that is less on board.
  - ant6n 5y ago
    Quebec left wing circles can be quite right wing/populist when it comes to language issues and nationalism. Political views don’t exist along a single linear spectrum.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      Hmm, not sure it's quite right wing. Left wing nationalism is actually a pretty big thing in the world outside of the anglosphere and some parts of Western Europe. I'm not sure I'd apply a left-wing / right-wing label to it. A lot of people see French as a minority language in Canada that must be protected, others see it as an issue of pure nationalism, it can come from a lot of directions. It's not unique to Québec either, similar programs exist among linguistic minorities in Africa, Eastern Europe and even Asia.
swat535 5y ago
I live in Quebec and can speak French and English fluently. The people of Quebec are wonderful and very friendly (seriously); especially in the Montreal area where I live.. However, there is a difference in being a proud of your culture and shoving it down other people's throats. These things piss off the majority of us in Quebec because the government is wasting taxes of hard working people. They should spend it instead on infrastructure, education and healthcare.. Frankly such moves don't even help give expand the culture. The government hardly support the authors, musicians and other artists. They don't attempt to make Quebec a welcoming place for all, they double down and add even more roadblocks for outsiders to get more insights on its great culture..

klyrs 5y ago

As an American immigrant to Canada, I've gotta say, you sound pretty ignorant about Canadian culture and history. You might wanna read up before sharing such strong opinions

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

hluska 5y ago

You’re not Canadian and this is a really tricky part of understanding how the Canadian system works. But this is a Province of Québec policy and only impacts Québec government ministries. The rest of Canada has Canadian content rules codified in our Broadcasting Act. The idea is that it should create a market for art our various Ministries of Culture pay for via grants. But in practice, Canadian terrestrial radio plays one hell of a lot of Nickelback and Trooper…

1000100_1000101 5y ago

As a British-born Canadian, my view is they have a knack of shooting themselves in the foot without realizing it. When we moved to Canada we were allowed to be schooled in English. Within a year or two they passed a new law that said you could only be educated in English if your parents were educated in English in either Quebec or Canada (don't remember which). Coming from England, my parent's education didn't qualify. There was no grandfathering, letting us continue in English because we'd already started in English. My parents didn't know French, and wouldn't be able to assist in learning it, or helping with homework. In response, we left Quebec and moved to the Toronto area. If they hadn't passed their law, I would have stayed, made French friends, shopped at French stores, and generally been immersed in the culture they want to protect, and learned French. My brothers would have too. Instead, we all vaguely know grade-9 core French, but not enough to actually communicate with anyone. Pretty much the exact opposite of what they want. Years later, they enacted French language laws, harassing stores over English signs, talking English to English customers, etc, all making it harder to be a tourist location. All their efforts seem to be more effective at driving away the non-French as opposed to spreading adoption and appreciation of French. Maybe that's their real plan. Their calls for separation are another sign that driving away the non-French may be the real goal... they want to be left alone... Which just seems incredibly short-sighted. If you're too isolated from the rest of the world, the rest of the world will move on without you.

cratermoon 5y ago
> All their efforts seem to be more effective at driving away the non-French Hmmmm...
kiliancs 5y ago
> Their calls for separation are another sign that driving away the non-French may be the real goal... [...] If you're too isolated from the rest of the world, the rest of the world will move on without you. Why do you see being independent as isolating from the world? I see it more as directly integrated rather than in a diluted way. I have noticed most countries don't undo their independence willingly, so it must not be that bad.

mthoms 5y ago

They're surrounded by 300 million+ English speakers and desperately trying to keep their language and culture alive. I'm not saying I agree with this particular initiative, but this is about survival of their very culture, not narcism. What an awfully uncharitable thing to say. It's funny, if the Inuit government had a similar initiative in Nunavut to support their culture, literally no-one would have a problem with it. Make of that what you will.

jdbakdb 5y ago
This is not true. I would have a huge problem with the Inuit enacted a similar initiative. I find these actions to be incredibly narcissistic, sad, and take them to be fundamentally misunderstanding how culture works. I also find it hilarious. If you want to keep your culture alive, create laws that allow you to prosper economically or militarily. This will cause your culture to spread, slowing but not preventing the inevitable disappearance that some day comes to any society.
- mthoms 5y ago
  There you have it folks. How to solve the global problem of cultural assimilation rolled up into a single paragraph. Just have more guns and/or money then your competitor (literally impossible in this case). This is a complex problem that has plagued cultures for thousands of years. If you're so confident to think you know the answer, I'd suggest it's you who is the narcissist. >This is not true. I would have a huge problem with the Inuit enacted a similar initiative. Okay, I'll correct myself. No-one I know (across three different provinces), would have a "huge" problem with a marginalized culture on the verge of extinction supporting their own culture, using their own money. But then again, people sure seem addicted to being outraged for little to no reason.
  - dang 5y ago
    "Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead." a.k.a. please don't feed the trolls https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

BlueNorth 5y ago

As a Quebecer, I will allow myself to highlight the intention behind this surprising proposal. Quebec's French-speaking artistic community is very rich and very lively. The musical tastes of Quebecers are also very diverse, in both English and French. Only, from a commercial point of view, English-speaking music enjoys a very large exposure and it is very easy to forget that other music also exists. Canada, from a constitutional point of view, officially recognizes 2 languages: English and French. Laws impose on the broadcaster a certain percentage of content in these 2 languages. However, French does not benefit from the strength of attraction of English on the North American continent. The Quebec government has therefore decided to do its part to increase the visibility of French-language music in Quebec, more specifically, Quebec French-language music. It is an action of resilience, one among many others that we feel obliged to do to avoid disappearing like all the other French-speaking populations of America.

hipparchus 5y ago

This sounds like you didn't even try to look at this from their perspective. What reads as narcissism to you reads to them as a necessity for cultural survival: is this a good way of dealing with the perceived anglophone takeover? are their fears unfounded and will Quebec still be the thriving French-speaking province it has been, a thousand years from now? I know neither answer to these questions, but I can on paper understand their sentiment: they are the only French speakers on their continent (barring the pockets in louisiana or French Guiana), and neighbours to the biggest cultural powerhouse of the last 50 years. Learning English to get better job opportunities seem like a no brainer for the majority of their youth, and leaving to the US is a dream for many of them. Their film producers, musicians, writers, and other artists are deeply talented in their own right, yet struggle to be known outside of Québec or francophone Europe. Who wants to be stuck in that market ? Some bear it, but others cater to the anglophones to benefit from the americans who export their culture to the entire rest of the world. It's nearly impossible to make it in the western world in any other way. If the Chinese ever achieve cultural rayonance as well as the Americans have achieved, or if spanish suddenly gains a much higher rate of usage in the US, I am confident thousands of anglophone will change their tune and opt a position much closer to the québécois.

moltar 5y ago
I think it’s a debate between wether you allow culture to propel itself or do we need to augment it and push it in some direction. If Quebec lost the French language overtime that would be an organic cultural correction in line with what the majority wants. If they didn’t want it, they’d preserve it. But if we want to shape culture and protect the past, why not go further in the past and promote indigenous languages too? They were there first. Language is an evolving tool. If we’re to protect English today from 600 years ago then we would still be speaking Germanic or something like that. https://youtu.be/8fxy6ZaMOq8 https://youtu.be/8fxy6ZaMOq8