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Apple Daily to shut in days unless government agrees to plea to unfreeze assets
- dng88 5y agoBits by bits, piece by pieces ... peaceful people facing military totalitarians.
- AussieWog93 5y agoThis is bigger than just one newspaper shutting down. They're the last major news organisation in HK that are not under owned or controlled by a company on the Mainland. It's one more nail in HK's coffin under One Country Two Systems.
- xwolfi 5y agoCNN is still here. Apple Daily can fight in court and change jurisprudence. Let's see how they explain their trumpist ties, because Im not naive enough to believe Apple Daily did all their insane drum up without a bit of encouragement from elsewhere. It s easy now to speak like a freedom fighter, but in 2019 Apple Daily was insane. They d encourage you to attack, I havent forgotten.
- null0pointer 5y ago> They d encourage you to attack Got a citation for that? An internet archive link perhaps?
- MattGaiser 5y ago> Let's see how they explain their trumpist ties The fact that they would need to explain such ties, even if they existed, before a court is part of the problem.
- sudosysgen 5y agoIs it? Turn it around, if a newspaper in the US was asked to explain ties to Xi Jinping or Putin before a court would that be of note? Because things like that do happen in US courts, and it would be very easy to go to jail if you had such associations and did things that would normally be protected, such as leaking national secrets or knowingly publishing false information, that would then be seen as national security infractions. You can argue that it's a bad thing, but this isn't something unieq to HK. In pretty much all of the world coordinating with geopolitical enemies puts you in hot water. Actually, coordinating with some Russian or Chinese officials is literally illegal in the US because of sanctions and may put you in jail, since it seems money was involved.
- Cyberdog 5y ago> Because things like that do happen in US courts [citation needed]
- sudosysgen 5y agoSure. The US has previously, by court order, inquired in the foreign status of press and required them to sign into the foreign entity list and then comply with restrictions : https://cpj.org/2019/07/several-foreign-news-outlets-required-to-register/ https://cpj.org/2019/07/several-foreign-news-outlets-require... As a matter of law they are forced to disclose these associations and subject to penalty if they do not. That can include criminal charges to individuals and has, during the Cold War, to people who "didn't disclose". I thought this was common knowledge?
- hkmaxpro 5y agoHK has a NSL court tightly controlled by the CCP. Not comparable to the US legal system. And NSL has immediate seizure of all assets, forcing Apple Daily to close immediately. Anything like that in the US?
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- 73gfg 5y agoWhich bank account would you like your ¥0.50 sent to?
- AussieWog93 5y agoI don't think it's fair or productive to call someone a wumao, especially xwolfi. They're clearly not a paid shill.
- scruffyherder 5y agoI think it’s fair
- dang 5y agoYou can't do this here and we've banned the account. Please read the rules: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html - and please don't create accounts to break them with.
- blfr 5y agoCNN is still here. That's the worst of both worlds: you lose free local press but you still get CNN.
- daxuak 5y agowolf right in the ID huh?
- skissane 5y ago> Apple Daily can fight in court and change jurisprudence A fight Apple Daily is unlikely to win. Even supposing the Court of Final Appeal (CFA) came down on Apple Daily's side, the Hong Kong government would just appeal to the NPCSC in Beijing saying the CFA is misinterpreting the Basic Law, and zero doubt the NPCSC will make a binding interpretation of the Basic Law overturning the CFA's decision. The Hong Kong judiciary has zero power against Beijing. The best thing would be if all the foreign judges (British, Australian and Canadian) resigned from the Hong Kong judiciary, to stop contributing to its false appearance of independence. I think if any of them refuse to resign, the governments of their home states should give serious consideration to compelling them to do so.
- schoen 5y agoHow come there are foreign judges serving on the Hong Kong judiciary today? What role do they have?
- pkaye 5y agoLooks like its from when Hong Kong used to be a British Territory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_Final_Appeal_(Hong_Kong) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_Final_Appeal_(Hong_Ko...
- hnfong 5y agoThe Court of Final Appeal is a new court established after the handover to replace the role of the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council. It is stipulated in the Sino British Joint Declaration and established by the Basic Law of HKSAR.
- hnfong 5y agoBack in early 1980s, there was a huge confidence crisis when it was announced that Hong Kong was going to be handed over to China. It was feared that the Chinese Communists was going to practice socialism in the city. Apparently, back then, the Chinese Communists thought that Hong Kong was more useful as a place to experiment with capitalism and market economy (which they did adopt to some extent in the mainland, compare today's China with China in the 1970s, a lot of Hong Kong businessmen were consulted on how to build a market economy in China) Anyway it was under this historical context that China proposed to invite foreign judges to sit in Hong Kong courts to boost the confidence of skeptics in the future of the region. Fast forward to now, this is still a tool for the Hong Kong government, to silence critics that the judiciary is being pressured by Beijing in trying political cases. At least, if judges your country are involved in deciding appeal cases there, your government can't really say with a straight face that they're systematically persecuting political dissidents. The UK has been trying to pull out their judges but from news reports I've read they're (the UK govt and judges) having a hard time agreeing to a coherent plan... PS: the actual role they have is similar to a judge in a supreme court. They get a "vote" (out of usual 5) how on how to decide the case if invited to sit for a particular case.
- 6f8986c3 5y ago> CNN is still here. The denizens of Hong Kong already have a wide selection of CCP-owned media to choose from.
- baybal2 5y ago> It s easy now to speak like a freedom fighter, but in 2019 Apple Daily was insane. They d encourage you to attack, I havent forgotten. And they did a very good thing doing so. And now you are in such a rut because you failed to heed this call.
- draw_down 5y agoChina is what it is. The last couple years have shown that to HK and the rest of the world. There’s no need or reason to maintain some token iconoclast news outlet as a fig leaf to pretend otherwise. Everyone, everyone knows the deal.
- bigpumpkin 5y agoReally? HKFP is still there.
- Animats 5y agoThe real loss was the independence of the South China Morning Post when the ownership changed in 2016. They'd been the newspaper of record in Hong Kong for over a century.
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- eatonphil 5y agoHave you noticed a big difference in coverage? While yes it would certainly be more independent if it was independent, I'm surprised at how they still publish pretty critical, self-aware pieces. Maybe some mainland news are also like this and I just don't know what normal is. If anyone has a recommendation for the equivalent of, say, The Atlantic or Harper's Magazine in mainland China I'd really love to hear.
- beerandt 5y agoThey've already got tons of outlets telling the official news, so one more is probably of minimal worth. However, it you continue to run it as a mostly unbiased/outsider publication, it'll be more credible when the occasional bit of propaganda is mixed in. What's the alternative? Abrupt change that not only gives away it's new ideological slant, but also could serve as a rallying point?
- marlor 5y agoThere’s definitely been a shift in tone in articles from the SCMP over the past five years. It used regularly provide highly critical coverage of both the Hong Kong and Chinese Governments. It was broadly supportive of the Umbrella Movement, and regularly provided unbiased coverage of the localist movement. The whole media environment has shifted now, and the SCMP, while still providing some critical coverage, is a shadow of what it was. Frustratingly, critical articles also seem to be edited to within an inch of their life. You can easily spot where content has been removed and/or replaced as the tone shifts dramatically and the subject inexplicably changes within articles. It’s still a useful resource, because Mainland media is almost entirely devoted to replicating propaganda now (unlike during the Hu era). It’s just a shame that the critical articles that used to be its bread and butter are now outliers within the newspaper.
- temp8964 5y agoYeah. The CCP has strategically used proxy businessmen to purchase HK (and Taiwan) newspapers for couple decades.
- Baeocystin 5y agoCan anyone from Hong Kong help clarify what role Apple Daily has held over the past several years?
- 73gfg 5y agoLast bastion of anti-establishment (CCP) press.
- ngcc_hk 5y agoIt is a tabloid for the funding size. But unlike the usual tabloid, it has the other side which basically support one specific social grouping - liberal, status quo with aspiration to democracy by peaceful means (old man wish, think of martin lee and cardinal zin etc.), June 4 rememberance... That is not the young one newspaper and hence not really in the core of the movement. But it is the bedrock for a lot of anti-communist people in Hong Kong. That is why with any excuse it would be removed. Like the legislature now just of communist supported puppet, removing apple daily will left mostly pro-communist groups. Or at least dare nit to say anything groups of media. And the way the police and court deal with it, there is just an arbitrary rule on Hong Kong. It is the end of liberal (general sense or you can use free) Hong Kong.
- scruffyherder 5y agoWhat to do though?! How do we possibly get 2+ million upset about this? Clearly they can’t arrest 1/3rd the population but it’s feeling like 2047 came early.
- scruffyherder 5y agoLast ones to publish free. It’s over the CCP and open sympathetic parties own all the rest of the media. We are totally screwed.
- hhvxssegn 5y agoGet out if you can
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- ilamont 5y agoTo some, Apple Daily represents democratic values such as a free press. Others view it as tabloid trash. I see it as an important tool of innovation in media. Lai pushed the envelope for Chinese language media, taking newsgathering and publishing far further than peer publications in Hong Kong and Taiwan. Some of his innovations - such as 3D news event simulations that Lai's Next Media began publishing in the 2000s - made an impact far beyond Hong Kong and Taiwan (https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTOE6AS04Q20101129 https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTOE6AS04Q20101129) It's sad to see this entrepreneurial news venture come to an end like this. It's criminal that Lai and his top editors have been thrown in jail.
- agnesv 5y agoI would say to the majority of HK Apple Daily represents freedom and democracy, few refers it as “trash”
- ilamont 5y agoIn Taiwan it had a sensationalistic reputation ... and not everyone thought that was a good thing.
- agnesv 5y agoAgreed that on TW, but for the HK one what it represents is very important to the citizens
- frogcoder 5y agoYeah, agreed. While I think it's a trashy tabloid, it's also less biased comparing to other media in Taiwan. Since other news sources are also becoming sensationalist and gossipy if not already, I ended up read Apple Daily more often. Not an optimal situation unfortunately.
- nicochrome 5y agoThe majority of Hong Kong people believe ridiculous conspiracy theories, have anti-immigration sentiments, and racist ways of thinking, worse so because racial discrimination is just a way of life for many in HK, so I wouldn't say majority rules is the best argument here. Hong Kong isn't this shining jewel of liberalism by any means. All of it just gives China more justification for their actions.
- EGreg 5y agoThey should be able to issue their own currency and pay volunteer workers in it !
- jumelles 5y agoHong Kong was nice while it lasted.
- JJMcJ 5y agoNot an expert but I was surprised it lasted this long with the degree of independence it had until a few years ago. I had seriously expected maybe two or three years before the crackdown.
- scruffyherder 5y agoWhat to do?! I can’t talk about this in person or in the streets. Sucks.
- throwawaysea 5y agoGiven that China has unilaterally decided that the joint declaration on Hong Kong no longer has meaning (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-anniversary-china-idUSKBN19L1J1 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-anniversary-chin...) why doesn’t the international community just consider the agreement to be fully not in force, and treat Hong Kong as being back under British control once again? Right now China is issuing threats even over Britain offering visas to Hong Kong residents (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/china-accuses-uk-of-gross-interference-over-hong-kong-citizenship-offer https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/china-accuses-...), and I don’t see why the entire free world doesn’t just band together to issue sanctions at this point. As an aside, I’ve seen zero action from the current administration with respect to managing China. Maybe they’re still figuring out their plan but as valuable time passes I feel they’re going to spinelessly let China bully Hong Kong and the world. Do we need to start emailing and calling representatives to see action? Any other ideas from this community?
- Bud 5y agoHave you thought this through? Countries are going to think twice before applying serious sanctions to China, given that China can shut off their supply chain for, well, basically everything.
- throwawaysea 5y agoWhy not just let them? If an appropriate coalition is formed, China won’t risk it. Even if they do, it’ll motivate everyone else to build up and hedge against them, which will be incredibly damaging to China in the long term.
- skissane 5y agoThe UK could try pursuing international legal action against China over violations of the Sino-British Joint Declaration – in the ICJ, PCA, etc. I'm not sure how easy that would be – jurisdictional issues for international courts are insanely complex – and even if the Court accepted the case, China is just going to ignore the outcome if they lose. But a Chinese loss would damage to China's international prestige. Another option seriously worth considering is to start withdrawing the special privileges which Western countries give to Hong Kong, and start treating it as just another part of the Mainland. If Beijing has no respect for Hong Kong's autonomy, why should anyone else respect it either?
- dang 5y agoRecent and related: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27546138 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27546138 - June 2021 (231 comments)
- silexia 5y agoFree people around the globe should watch what China did in Hong Kong after promising to keep Hong Kong's freedoms, and should protect Taiwan at all costs from the mainland. Free people should extend protection from Chinese influence to the Philippines, Africa, and other areas as well.
- ashneo76 5y agoLooks like anything anti-ccp is getting downvoted to hell.