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Or you can just treat the unvaccinated like adults and let them behave as their own risk tolerance allows. That means no required masks, social distancing, or s

Or you can just treat the unvaccinated like adults and let them behave as their own risk tolerance allows. That means no required masks, social distancing, or security theater like individually portioned food. High freedom, high liberty, high choice

Spivak 5y ago
That doesn’t work when your actions affect more than just yourself. If my risk tolerance is high (which it is since I have a friend who has a compromised immune system and can’t risk being a carrier even though I’m vaccinated) and yours is low then we have an unresolvable problem. If you’re allowed to go around freely then my liberty is reduced because now I have to take precautions against being around you where I otherwise wouldn’t. But if you’re not then I get my liberty back as the cost of your freedom of choice. You cannot have all three. Someone is going to lose, it’s just a question of who and how much.
- TheAdamAndChe 5y ago
  That's a good argument before the vaccine was released. Now the vaccine is available to all who want it. Only those who don't want it remain. Why should they be shamed and forced to take something that is only available because of an emergency use authorization?
  - haswell 5y ago
    Because the vaccines are still only 90-95% effective. As a fully vaccinated individual, I've relaxed my own precautions quite a bit, as is appropriate. However, there are still situations that make me uncomfortable, and I'll still put a mask on / sanitize regularly / etc when I'm in those situations (mostly if I'm interacting with people I know are anti-vax or are unable to get the vaccine for some reason (my brother falls into the 2nd category due to health issues)). One of the primary reasons to attend a conference is to talk to strangers. This often involves meals, drinks, close proximity. No one is being shamed here. Shaming would be creating a separate section at the conference for unvaccinated attendees and literally shaming them.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - guilhas 5y ago
      Then maybe, as fully vaccinated, you would be much safer from not traveling in cars than avoiding contact with unvaccinated As a unvaccinated individual I never took any precaution, except the strictly mandatory to not get stoned in the public square Me or my family will not live in fear of very low probability chances
      - haswell 5y ago
        I have a history of health issues that are relevant here, and I evaluate risk based on those health issues. Not every circumstance is the same, and while I do understand that the risk is low, and while I have drastically lowered the precautions I take, I still take this seriously, especially considering the current vaccination rates (they're pretty low). > As a unvaccinated individual I never took any precaution That's your right as an individual; however, that does not reflect the recommendations of most health professionals, nor does it reflect the reality of the global situation. Of course not everyone that skips precautions will get sick, but don't misinterpret your good fortune / luck as an indicator that the behavior was/is safe.
        guilhas 5y ago
        Actually you're right, people with health conditions should definitely have more precautions I suspect I had covid, and the month after I had several strange infections, like my immune system was way down

Spivak 5y ago

That doesn’t work when your actions affect more than just yourself. If my risk tolerance is high (which it is since I have a friend who has a compromised immune system and can’t risk being a carrier even though I’m vaccinated) and yours is low then we have an unresolvable problem. If you’re allowed to go around freely then my liberty is reduced because now I have to take precautions against being around you where I otherwise wouldn’t. But if you’re not then I get my liberty back as the cost of your freedom of choice. You cannot have all three. Someone is going to lose, it’s just a question of who and how much.

TheAdamAndChe 5y ago
That's a good argument before the vaccine was released. Now the vaccine is available to all who want it. Only those who don't want it remain. Why should they be shamed and forced to take something that is only available because of an emergency use authorization?
- haswell 5y ago
  Because the vaccines are still only 90-95% effective. As a fully vaccinated individual, I've relaxed my own precautions quite a bit, as is appropriate. However, there are still situations that make me uncomfortable, and I'll still put a mask on / sanitize regularly / etc when I'm in those situations (mostly if I'm interacting with people I know are anti-vax or are unable to get the vaccine for some reason (my brother falls into the 2nd category due to health issues)). One of the primary reasons to attend a conference is to talk to strangers. This often involves meals, drinks, close proximity. No one is being shamed here. Shaming would be creating a separate section at the conference for unvaccinated attendees and literally shaming them.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - guilhas 5y ago
    Then maybe, as fully vaccinated, you would be much safer from not traveling in cars than avoiding contact with unvaccinated As a unvaccinated individual I never took any precaution, except the strictly mandatory to not get stoned in the public square Me or my family will not live in fear of very low probability chances
    - haswell 5y ago
      I have a history of health issues that are relevant here, and I evaluate risk based on those health issues. Not every circumstance is the same, and while I do understand that the risk is low, and while I have drastically lowered the precautions I take, I still take this seriously, especially considering the current vaccination rates (they're pretty low). > As a unvaccinated individual I never took any precaution That's your right as an individual; however, that does not reflect the recommendations of most health professionals, nor does it reflect the reality of the global situation. Of course not everyone that skips precautions will get sick, but don't misinterpret your good fortune / luck as an indicator that the behavior was/is safe.
      - guilhas 5y ago
        Actually you're right, people with health conditions should definitely have more precautions I suspect I had covid, and the month after I had several strange infections, like my immune system was way down