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I'm sorry, I reject the idea that there's a set of brutal conditions that would have led me to rape, and murder even children in cold blood like the Trawniki di

by the_af 5y ago

I'm sorry, I reject the idea that there's a set of brutal conditions that would have led me to rape, and murder even children in cold blood like the Trawniki did. The scale and horror that Nazism and their willing lackeys inflicted upon the (modern) world is terrifying. No, under no set of conditions I would have behaved like the Trawniki. You say that every army raped, and this is true, but > You are bringing it up and it is horrible, but it was not unique to these units at all. I'm sorry, but again read what the Trawniki did and tell me it's of the same order of magnitude than what other armies "regularly" did. You can't, because it's not. Nazism enabled them, and these men, out of their own free will, went above and beyond the "call of duty", embraced it and rejoiced in this monstrous behavior. In many cases they weren't frontline units -- so their savagery upon civilians cannot be excused by saying "they were numbed and desperate by combat, and their prisoners suffered because of it" -- they conducted reprisals on civilians and served as guards in extermination camps, and were a key part of the Holocaust. They were reasonably well fed and clothed, and they chose to murder women and children. What's their excuse then? I've read a lot about history, and know of men and women that perished because they refused to behave like savages, to know this is not the only possible course of action. The Trawniki were really scum and there's no excuse for what they did.

watwut 5y ago
When you askes "why" I thought it is about analyzing why. Now it seems to me that there is zero interest in "why". > I'm sorry, but again read what the Trawniki did and tell me it's of the same order of magnitude than what other armies "regularly" did Germans had units composed of criminals run by rapist. Like, literally guy convinced of that. It was largely uncontrolable body, not that anyone tried to controlled the rape away. The history of armies and wars are people exactly like that. There were multiple genocides in history and it involves killing children each time. ISIS included. Rape included.
- the_af 5y ago
  I never asked "why", so you must be confusing me with someone else from this thread. That said, "why" is an interesting question that can be explored, but "why" is not the same as "everyone would do this". > The history of armies and wars are people exactly like that. There were multiple genocides in history and it involves killing children each time. ISIS included. Rape included. In recent history very little resembles WWII in scale, savagery and murder. Things in Africa in more recent history, I guess, and the Armenian genocide that even Hitler paid attention to. But WWII's scale of bloodshed and ethnic cleansing is unmatched, as is the systematic, planned nature of said cleansing. > There were multiple genocides in history and it involves killing children each time. I'm not even sure what you're arguing here. Maybe that because killing of children happened before and after, that the Trawniki weren't monsters to be singled out and repudiate every time they are mentioned? I disagree. They were monsters, the worst of the worst. Notice I didn't claim the Trawniki invented ethnic cleansing or rape though. If you mention some other army that killed children, maybe hacked them to pieces using machetes during one of Africa's stomach churning conflicts, I'm ready to call them monsters too. Are you?

by the_af 5y ago

watwut 5y ago

When you askes "why" I thought it is about analyzing why. Now it seems to me that there is zero interest in "why". > I'm sorry, but again read what the Trawniki did and tell me it's of the same order of magnitude than what other armies "regularly" did Germans had units composed of criminals run by rapist. Like, literally guy convinced of that. It was largely uncontrolable body, not that anyone tried to controlled the rape away. The history of armies and wars are people exactly like that. There were multiple genocides in history and it involves killing children each time. ISIS included. Rape included.

the_af 5y ago
I never asked "why", so you must be confusing me with someone else from this thread. That said, "why" is an interesting question that can be explored, but "why" is not the same as "everyone would do this". > The history of armies and wars are people exactly like that. There were multiple genocides in history and it involves killing children each time. ISIS included. Rape included. In recent history very little resembles WWII in scale, savagery and murder. Things in Africa in more recent history, I guess, and the Armenian genocide that even Hitler paid attention to. But WWII's scale of bloodshed and ethnic cleansing is unmatched, as is the systematic, planned nature of said cleansing. > There were multiple genocides in history and it involves killing children each time. I'm not even sure what you're arguing here. Maybe that because killing of children happened before and after, that the Trawniki weren't monsters to be singled out and repudiate every time they are mentioned? I disagree. They were monsters, the worst of the worst. Notice I didn't claim the Trawniki invented ethnic cleansing or rape though. If you mention some other army that killed children, maybe hacked them to pieces using machetes during one of Africa's stomach churning conflicts, I'm ready to call them monsters too. Are you?