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You also have to blame companies/hr for being so reactive and possibly our governments for not taking action to insulate society against the impacts of internet

by dcow 5y ago

You also have to blame companies/hr for being so reactive and possibly our governments for not taking action to insulate society against the impacts of internet mobs on peoples’ pursuit of happiness. The fact that 100 people on Twitter can get somebody fired just by calling them a rapist with absolutely no proof is a social/societal failure. I highly suspect ending this person’s contracts cost the companies more money than the PR/threat of loss of 100 Twitter users business. Is nobody at these companies that participate in canceling people mature enough to let the storm blow over? Which leads to the social element, good legal systems require the accusers to bear the burden of proof. I think it’s possible that there’s a legal framework by which we could consider it unconstitutional fire somebody for somebody else’s character opinion, essentially firing someone without evidence that they create a hostile work environment or are not performing their duties. Look at CA, you cant use somebody’s criminal record against them when making a hiring decision. That law exists for exactly this reason: incarceration evidently weighs an undue burden on the incarcerated as they try to integrate back into society. And thats for people who’ve been convicted. We’re talking about mob driven allegations.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
underseacables 5y ago
This is one of those rare instances I would say there should be a law that prevents a company from firing an employee for something they did not attached to their work.
- rkk3 5y ago
  > something they did not attached to their work. Except it was very much attached to his work since this was happening at industry events...
thu2111 5y ago
To do that you'd need to roll back corporate feminism. The reason this guy got cancelled is the feminist culture of "always believe the victim" which is basically the same as "always believe an accusation". Anyone who points out that women can and do lie about being raped i.e. an accusation is not automatically true, is immediately trashed by feminists as a woman hater, and they make it quite clear that it's a "pick us or them" type situation, which in turn makes it difficult to treat the topic rationally. This poor guys situation is the inevitable result. The art world is especially exposed to this because it's full of leftists, so you're really asking for a roll back of identity politics as a whole. Good luck with that. If you figure it out let us know.
- dcow 5y ago
  > so you're really asking for a roll back of identity politics as a whole. Good luck with that. If you figure it out let us know. Doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss and try to push back. But yeah I feel the hopelessness when I get in a jaded mood too. My friend has a hypothesis that since the 3rd wave has taken hold, we'll only see a swing back once the tactics start negatively affecting the progenitors of the rhetoric, which it eventually will because the rhetoric is not internally consistent. What gives me a sliver of hope is that people are talking about the negative impacts and how irrational the situation is now with a seriousness and subtle urgency that never used to exist. 10 years ago when I had these conversations it was all hypothetical "that will never happen cmon don't be such a bigot you kinda sound like you're victim blaming" type of responses. How quickly it's become "shit that happened uh oh.. um..".
rkk3 5y ago
> You also have to blame companies/hr for being so reactive Have you read his original published written apology [1]? I can't think of a company that would want to keep someone who in their own words was a "Shitty, Creepy, Sexual Predator" at recent work & industry events. [1] https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/noah-bradley-admits-to-being-a-sexual-predator-at-art-industry-events/ https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/noah-bradley-admi...
- dcow 5y ago
  Maybe he is too charitable in his assessment, but the reality is the rapist allegations are not true (entirely mob escalated nonsense) and from what I can gather largely the reason he was "canceled". I suspect the shitty creepy sexual predator label is simply the author internalizing the mobs reaction. There's a very very fine line between "creepy" and "has game" and it usually comes down to how attractive you are which moulds how other people happen to perceive your advances.
  - rkk3 5y ago
    > but the reality is the rapist allegations are not true Wizards didn't fire him for being a rapist[1]. It's great he isn't a rapist! But why should his company ignore that he publicly apologized for doing sexually inappropriate things at work events? [1] https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/statement-regarding-noah-bradley-2020-06-22 https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/statement... "Noah Bradley, engaged in inappropriate sexual conduct with members of the Magic and artist community."
    - dcow 5y ago
      …because the mob said so… The only reason Wizard cared was because there was an associated twitter shitfest. Why didn't they simply ask Noah to stop making sexual advances at “work events” if it was really a pervasive problem outside of the twitterverse affecting employees at the company? It’s not illegal to hit on someone. Inappropriate is such a fuzzy definition it can literally mean “he gave me the up down”.

by dcow 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

underseacables 5y ago

This is one of those rare instances I would say there should be a law that prevents a company from firing an employee for something they did not attached to their work.

rkk3 5y ago
> something they did not attached to their work. Except it was very much attached to his work since this was happening at industry events...

thu2111 5y ago

To do that you'd need to roll back corporate feminism. The reason this guy got cancelled is the feminist culture of "always believe the victim" which is basically the same as "always believe an accusation". Anyone who points out that women can and do lie about being raped i.e. an accusation is not automatically true, is immediately trashed by feminists as a woman hater, and they make it quite clear that it's a "pick us or them" type situation, which in turn makes it difficult to treat the topic rationally. This poor guys situation is the inevitable result. The art world is especially exposed to this because it's full of leftists, so you're really asking for a roll back of identity politics as a whole. Good luck with that. If you figure it out let us know.

dcow 5y ago
> so you're really asking for a roll back of identity politics as a whole. Good luck with that. If you figure it out let us know. Doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss and try to push back. But yeah I feel the hopelessness when I get in a jaded mood too. My friend has a hypothesis that since the 3rd wave has taken hold, we'll only see a swing back once the tactics start negatively affecting the progenitors of the rhetoric, which it eventually will because the rhetoric is not internally consistent. What gives me a sliver of hope is that people are talking about the negative impacts and how irrational the situation is now with a seriousness and subtle urgency that never used to exist. 10 years ago when I had these conversations it was all hypothetical "that will never happen cmon don't be such a bigot you kinda sound like you're victim blaming" type of responses. How quickly it's become "shit that happened uh oh.. um..".

rkk3 5y ago

> You also have to blame companies/hr for being so reactive Have you read his original published written apology [1]? I can't think of a company that would want to keep someone who in their own words was a "Shitty, Creepy, Sexual Predator" at recent work & industry events. [1] https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/noah-bradley-admits-to-being-a-sexual-predator-at-art-industry-events/ https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/noah-bradley-admi...

dcow 5y ago
Maybe he is too charitable in his assessment, but the reality is the rapist allegations are not true (entirely mob escalated nonsense) and from what I can gather largely the reason he was "canceled". I suspect the shitty creepy sexual predator label is simply the author internalizing the mobs reaction. There's a very very fine line between "creepy" and "has game" and it usually comes down to how attractive you are which moulds how other people happen to perceive your advances.
- rkk3 5y ago
  > but the reality is the rapist allegations are not true Wizards didn't fire him for being a rapist[1]. It's great he isn't a rapist! But why should his company ignore that he publicly apologized for doing sexually inappropriate things at work events? [1] https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/statement-regarding-noah-bradley-2020-06-22 https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/statement... "Noah Bradley, engaged in inappropriate sexual conduct with members of the Magic and artist community."
  - dcow 5y ago
    …because the mob said so… The only reason Wizard cared was because there was an associated twitter shitfest. Why didn't they simply ask Noah to stop making sexual advances at “work events” if it was really a pervasive problem outside of the twitterverse affecting employees at the company? It’s not illegal to hit on someone. Inappropriate is such a fuzzy definition it can literally mean “he gave me the up down”.