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I've yet to get a satisfying answer to why it matters - life is suffering. Is there any organism that can survive without the expense of something else? constr

I've yet to get a satisfying answer to why it matters - life is suffering. Is there any organism that can survive without the expense of something else? construction kills animals, eating animals kills animals, using computers promotes industry which kills animals. what activity can a human participate in that doesn't kill animals? of course, one can say fewer animals could be killed by doing [other things], but that's besides the point. I'm not sure you can win, nature will always find an equilibrium that will result in the same amount of death - you save the goats and they'll ruin the land and eventually all die. you kill the predators and overpopulation of the prey will run rampant resulting in eventual famine, etc. and of course, if you're lucky things are in a stable state until something evolves and figures out efficient ways to wipe everything out - I suppose that's where we come in.

busyant 5y ago
> life is suffering Not sure why I'm sharing this, but I saw a hawk kill a squirrel yesterday. It was standing on top of the squirrel (still alive) on my neighbor's lawn. Three other squirrels were screeching and they made futile charges at the hawk to try to free the other squirrel. The amount of distress / suffering / chaos was far more disturbing than I would have expected to see on a suburban lawn. I even considered intervening and trying to scare the hawk away. But the hawk's gotta eat, too. Plus, it probably would've kicked my ass. *edits for better phrasing.
- silicon2401 5y ago
  There's a video I saw on youtube of a bear eating a deer alive in someone's backyard. The video is filmed from behind a sliding glass door or something, basically front row seats. It's quite horrifying; the deer screams and sounds just like a human screaming. I've gotta say, one thing I'll say about hunting is there's almost no way the animal will suffer as much from being shot as they would if they were eaten by bears or wolves instead.
- lsaferite 5y ago
  My fun anecdote: I watched a hawk swoop down and land about 5 feet from a squirrel in my yard a few weeks ago. I thought to myself, "That squirrel is toast." The hawk just sat there and the squirrel charged it _and chased it off_. First time I've ever see that in my life. I'm assuming the hawk wasn't hungry or was ill, so the squirrel got lucky.
silicon2401 5y ago
In theory wouldn't that cover any organism that subsists directly on a non-living energy source (forgot if there's a word for that). Plants with the sun, deep-sea life with thermal vents. If you go full sci-fi, I imagine a human could survive without the expense of another living thing if we could synthesize all the nutrients etc that a human needs. As to why it matters in a philosophical sense, I'd say it doesn't. Everything's just matter and energy. But it matters to some people so they try to reduce their impact, just like violence matters to most people so most people try to avoid injuring or maiming people, even if it doesn't matter in the end.
KineticLensman 5y ago
> Is there any organism that can survive without the expense of something else? Things that photosynthesize, before some resource limit is reached.

busyant 5y ago

> life is suffering Not sure why I'm sharing this, but I saw a hawk kill a squirrel yesterday. It was standing on top of the squirrel (still alive) on my neighbor's lawn. Three other squirrels were screeching and they made futile charges at the hawk to try to free the other squirrel. The amount of distress / suffering / chaos was far more disturbing than I would have expected to see on a suburban lawn. I even considered intervening and trying to scare the hawk away. But the hawk's gotta eat, too. Plus, it probably would've kicked my ass. *edits for better phrasing.

silicon2401 5y ago
There's a video I saw on youtube of a bear eating a deer alive in someone's backyard. The video is filmed from behind a sliding glass door or something, basically front row seats. It's quite horrifying; the deer screams and sounds just like a human screaming. I've gotta say, one thing I'll say about hunting is there's almost no way the animal will suffer as much from being shot as they would if they were eaten by bears or wolves instead.
lsaferite 5y ago
My fun anecdote: I watched a hawk swoop down and land about 5 feet from a squirrel in my yard a few weeks ago. I thought to myself, "That squirrel is toast." The hawk just sat there and the squirrel charged it _and chased it off_. First time I've ever see that in my life. I'm assuming the hawk wasn't hungry or was ill, so the squirrel got lucky.

silicon2401 5y ago

In theory wouldn't that cover any organism that subsists directly on a non-living energy source (forgot if there's a word for that). Plants with the sun, deep-sea life with thermal vents. If you go full sci-fi, I imagine a human could survive without the expense of another living thing if we could synthesize all the nutrients etc that a human needs. As to why it matters in a philosophical sense, I'd say it doesn't. Everything's just matter and energy. But it matters to some people so they try to reduce their impact, just like violence matters to most people so most people try to avoid injuring or maiming people, even if it doesn't matter in the end.

KineticLensman 5y ago

> Is there any organism that can survive without the expense of something else? Things that photosynthesize, before some resource limit is reached.