5 ms·

I've fortunately never been cancelled (I don't think I even have enough of a footprint or visibility for that to happen). From everything I've observed, the ab

I've fortunately never been cancelled (I don't think I even have enough of a footprint or visibility for that to happen). From everything I've observed, the absolute worst thing you can do is apologize to the people attempting to cancel you. It's just pouring gasoline on the fire. These people will never say "oh, you learned from your mistakes, I guess I'll back off". Most of them don't really care about the truth, they care about signaling. So an apology only vindicates them. As far as I can tell, the thing to always keep in mind is if you wait a few days these things always pass pretty quickly. The internet has a very short attention span. As long as you never give those people a confirmation that you did something you regret, you're much better off in the future. Of course you should privately apologize and make amends for things you've done wrong; but those things are always more effective privately and personally done anyway.

surround 5y ago
Every single internet apology I've seen has been met with "this is such a bad apology / isn't a real apology." I'd love to see an example of an internet apology where people don't criticize the apology itself (if one exists).
- etcet 5y ago
  The Dan Harmon apology is very good and, as far as I understand (I'm not on Twitter), was generally well received: https://time.com/5100019/dan-harmon-megan-ganz-sexual-harassment-apology/ https://time.com/5100019/dan-harmon-megan-ganz-sexual-harass...
  - koheripbal 5y ago
    That was a good read. ...but if anything it sort of highlights the scope of the problem. Here is a man who could not handle working with a woman, and took it out on her. Shitty behavior, for sure. This is an order of magnitude better than being accused of being serial rapist. ....but if you think about it. Ted Harmon got away with this because he is so so so highly respected in the field. AND EVEN HE, was effectively forced to issue a public apology.
    - stavros 5y ago
      > Ted (sic) Harmon got away with this because he is so so so highly respected in the field. And he's an extraordinarily smart and self-aware person, too. Most people aren't really in a position to do this much introspection and analyze the situation. If this is the bar of apology that's required, pretty much nobody is going to clear it.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- jacobr1 5y ago
  Even presuming that the act was worthy of censure, and an apology sincere, forgiveness can't really be given until some sort of restorative action is taken. Words, even sincere words, can't provide recompense. Of course, most these internet based outrages and boilerplate apologies are ridiculous anyway. Sincerity is nowhere to be found.
  - chakhs 5y ago
    If you hurt person A, why do you have to apologize to the public anyways? You should apologize to that person, why do others expect you to apologize to them?
nix0n 5y ago
I agree with your (and others on this post) assertion that apologizing doesn't seem to help. But I'm not convinced that waiting silently for things to blow over actually works. Are there any examples of this?
- xwdv 5y ago
  Donald Trump, Andrew Cuomo
fastball 5y ago
The key is to not apologize and to have you career be semi-insulated from such a cancelling, in whatever form that takes (whether it's being self-employed in a way where a boycott doesn't hurt you too much, or working for someone that agrees with whatever it is you're saying and will stand by you, or just being independently wealthy).
spoonjim 5y ago
Look at Andrew Cuomo. Dozens of women accused of him of lewd behavior and he said "whatever" and the media have moved on.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- tasuki 5y ago
  From Wikipedia: > Liss said Cuomo called her "sweetheart," touched her on her lower back while they were at a reception, and also once kissed her hand after she stood up from her desk. There are worse accusations too, but surely this is closer to light flirting than to lewd behavior? Compared to this, a certain recent US ex-president should have been cancelled a dozen times over.
  - spoonjim 5y ago
    Everyone knows that Trump defies all logic and reason so not sure what can be learned from that. Other examples are more illuminating.
  - kyleee 5y ago
    The person you've responded to said dozens; so what are the other accusations?
    - spoonjim 5y ago
      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/andrew-cuomo-news-live-allegations-latest-b1816524.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...
rvz 5y ago
Absolutely. From them, there is no such thing as redemption. They want to look good on Twitter (with added outrage) for playing the hero and cancelling the 'villain of the week' with their insults and libellous accusations until the target is deleted everywhere; including their livelihood. By not apologising, ignoring or saying anything (I mean anything), they get bored quickly and the whole story falls apart with the heat dying out. You have to waste their time enough for them to give up to move on to the next victim. It is in your favour if you don't apologise in public. Otherwise it is in on the record that you are finished and the mob will make ridiculous demands such as: 'If you're truly sorry, do xyz...'. See where this goes?
snowflake_ptr 5y ago
Jordan Peterson has been saying "never apologize to a mob" for years now. Your observations (and mine), as well as the reasons that you gave, seem to support that idea.

surround 5y ago

Every single internet apology I've seen has been met with "this is such a bad apology / isn't a real apology." I'd love to see an example of an internet apology where people don't criticize the apology itself (if one exists).

etcet 5y ago
The Dan Harmon apology is very good and, as far as I understand (I'm not on Twitter), was generally well received: https://time.com/5100019/dan-harmon-megan-ganz-sexual-harassment-apology/ https://time.com/5100019/dan-harmon-megan-ganz-sexual-harass...
- koheripbal 5y ago
  That was a good read. ...but if anything it sort of highlights the scope of the problem. Here is a man who could not handle working with a woman, and took it out on her. Shitty behavior, for sure. This is an order of magnitude better than being accused of being serial rapist. ....but if you think about it. Ted Harmon got away with this because he is so so so highly respected in the field. AND EVEN HE, was effectively forced to issue a public apology.
  - stavros 5y ago
    > Ted (sic) Harmon got away with this because he is so so so highly respected in the field. And he's an extraordinarily smart and self-aware person, too. Most people aren't really in a position to do this much introspection and analyze the situation. If this is the bar of apology that's required, pretty much nobody is going to clear it.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jacobr1 5y ago
Even presuming that the act was worthy of censure, and an apology sincere, forgiveness can't really be given until some sort of restorative action is taken. Words, even sincere words, can't provide recompense. Of course, most these internet based outrages and boilerplate apologies are ridiculous anyway. Sincerity is nowhere to be found.
- chakhs 5y ago
  If you hurt person A, why do you have to apologize to the public anyways? You should apologize to that person, why do others expect you to apologize to them?

nix0n 5y ago

I agree with your (and others on this post) assertion that apologizing doesn't seem to help. But I'm not convinced that waiting silently for things to blow over actually works. Are there any examples of this?

xwdv 5y ago
Donald Trump, Andrew Cuomo

fastball 5y ago

The key is to not apologize and to have you career be semi-insulated from such a cancelling, in whatever form that takes (whether it's being self-employed in a way where a boycott doesn't hurt you too much, or working for someone that agrees with whatever it is you're saying and will stand by you, or just being independently wealthy).

spoonjim 5y ago

Look at Andrew Cuomo. Dozens of women accused of him of lewd behavior and he said "whatever" and the media have moved on.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tasuki 5y ago
From Wikipedia: > Liss said Cuomo called her "sweetheart," touched her on her lower back while they were at a reception, and also once kissed her hand after she stood up from her desk. There are worse accusations too, but surely this is closer to light flirting than to lewd behavior? Compared to this, a certain recent US ex-president should have been cancelled a dozen times over.
- spoonjim 5y ago
  Everyone knows that Trump defies all logic and reason so not sure what can be learned from that. Other examples are more illuminating.
- kyleee 5y ago
  The person you've responded to said dozens; so what are the other accusations?
  - spoonjim 5y ago
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/andrew-cuomo-news-live-allegations-latest-b1816524.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...

rvz 5y ago

Absolutely. From them, there is no such thing as redemption. They want to look good on Twitter (with added outrage) for playing the hero and cancelling the 'villain of the week' with their insults and libellous accusations until the target is deleted everywhere; including their livelihood. By not apologising, ignoring or saying anything (I mean anything), they get bored quickly and the whole story falls apart with the heat dying out. You have to waste their time enough for them to give up to move on to the next victim. It is in your favour if you don't apologise in public. Otherwise it is in on the record that you are finished and the mob will make ridiculous demands such as: 'If you're truly sorry, do xyz...'. See where this goes?

snowflake_ptr 5y ago

Jordan Peterson has been saying "never apologize to a mob" for years now. Your observations (and mine), as well as the reasons that you gave, seem to support that idea.