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I'm a bit sceptical about this because it talks very little about what happened that caused OP to get "cancelled", and an awful lot about how they came back fro

I'm a bit sceptical about this because it talks very little about what happened that caused OP to get "cancelled", and an awful lot about how they came back from it. I do understand, first-hand, the trauma that comes from being cancelled (although I have like 1500 followers on Twitter so you could argue the stakes are less) and there's no doubt that it is a bitch. But there is something to take away from it - or at least there was in my case - which was that I, in fact, was an asshole. That does not seem to be the overarching narrative of this post, and I do not see a lot of learning they have done from being cancelled. In conclusion, kudos to the way you bounced back but I really wish there was a bit more introspection into how you see your past behaviour in the light of being cancelled.

mrkurt 5y ago
There's a little more context here: https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/noah-bradley-admits-to-being-a-sexual-predator-at-art-industry-events/ https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/noah-bradley-admi...
- kstrauser 5y ago
  > “I was terrible to women,” Bradley wrote. “I preyed on them. I ceaselessly hit on them. I pressured them into sex. I got too drunk and did all manner of dumb things. Yes, I was one of those shitty, creepy sexual predators you hear about.” This is literally the first I've heard of Bradley, and I have no knowledge of him outside of this HN post. That's a pretty self-damning quote, though.
  - noahbradley 5y ago
    Yep, it is. I was trying to take full ownership of what I was like and overplayed what I had done in an effort to not seem like I was downplaying it. It's dumb in hindsight but there it is.
    - jrochkind1 5y ago
      I don't know if you overplayed it, or if if you were dumb. You had in the past done some terrible things, you agree. The internet these days tries to utterly destroy people for having in the past done terrible things, with no way out. This does not in fact make it less likely for people to do terrible things; it does make it less likely for them to admit to them (even to themselves), to apologize to those who have hurt, or to do what those they have hurt need for repair and redress. So, that's not great, all around, it's true. It's a problem. This response does not actually reduce harm, it just further treats people as disposable. But if, say, the people you had hurt needed/wanted to hear you say it like that publicly? Then you did the right thing, you didn't do a dumb thing. You owed it to them regardless of consequences, because of the harm you caused. And I respect it. And I think you can feel good about owning up to the terrible things you did, instead of feeling dumb about it, it's the right thing to have done -- which doesn't mean you have to think "the internets" (or your friends :( ) response to you was appropriate. I'm glad you are figuring out a way out of the hole, and I'm glad you have figured out how to stop treating people like you did in your youth. I respect the way you tell the story without trying to excuse or escape the harm you caused in your youth.
    - LegitShady 5y ago
      your mistake was apologizing and playing into the game at all. Extracting an apology from the accused is part of the cancellation process. Now they don't have to justify at all - they can point to your own admissions and say 'see even he agrees he's a sexual predator'. Now you can be blamed for your own cancellation, so any action against you is permissable. You admitted to 'preying' on women. You gave them an excuse that will never die. The mob is never satisfied. The mob will never accept an apology. The mob will never stop. You can never address a mob. They are only chasing you, or you're part of them. The target of the mob is dehumanized and blamed for their own persecution. That's you.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
pdonis 5y ago
> I really wish there was a bit more introspection into how you see your past behaviour in the light of being cancelled. I don't get this comment. The author says explicitly that he was an asshole in the past, that he changed who he was, and that he apologized privately to the people he had hurt. What more do you want?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- long_time_gone 5y ago
  He has also admitted to “pressuring women into sex” in other posts. Does apologizing just wipe all that away? How would he know if he apologized to every person he hurt?
- aeturnum 5y ago
  I think this quote from the article is a good example: >I don’t think I can fully describe the heart-wrenching pain of seeing your life & career crumbling around you and feeling utterly powerless to stop it. I thought I was fast approaching my inevitable and permanent end. I don’t cry often, but I cried a lot that night. The author has harsh words for his previous behavior, but the question I have is about the sentiment at the center of his reflection on the experience: if he had agency in the attacks on him. I certainly believe that he does not think he does. A lot of this comes down to deeply personal questions about how to address misbehavior and what we expect from other people. I do not know the details of what Noah did or what the people he mistreated want, but in his incomplete account I can certainly think of things that jump out to me. - He says that no one has accused him of raping them. I personally know people who were raped and never accused their rapists. It was not worth the trouble or they did not have the social capital or they did not want to pursue law enforcement. How much introspection Noah should have depends a lot on the specifics but is it certainly not clearly enough to say that you didn't do something because no one accused you. That's not reflection. - At the end of the day no one has an obligation to like you. It is not up to the perpetrator to decide what the appropriate restorative process is. We do not need a legal system to give us permission to dislike someone. - He says, towards the end "If you’ve been cancelled and want someone to talk with who won’t shame or judge you, shoot me a message." I mean...I suppose I get what he means, but it seems hard to simultaneously put forth that your previous behavior was wrong and should be judged harshly and also that you will not judge others for their previous behavior. I am all for a path to restoration, but if I am to believe in reform I would like to see a more complex understanding than I get from this essay. I believe any real path to restoration must include judgement about past misdeeds. I think about the Dan Harmon apology for the sexual harassment her perpetrated against a coworker[1]. It has its own flaws and, to a degree, I think it overly-centers Harmon, but one thing I think it gets very right is that Harmon made sure to apologize in a way that was accepted by his victims and was detailed about his misbehavior. He is clear-eyed about the way that he took advantage of his power, how selfish and small his motivations were, and how much damage he did to his victims. His apology feels merciless to his past self in a way that I do not see in Noah's account. Now maybe Noah has fully satisfied his victims and they simply do not want to go public and ofc that changes my understanding of this situation. But I do not get the same unceasingly unsympathetic treatment of Noah's past behavior. He seems like he wants it to go away rather than make it part of his story and, I think, that approach feels less fully-engaged than others that I've seen. Ultimately accounts like this, where we are all judging behavior of strangers we haven't meet in past events we did not experience, are always questionable. I don't feel certain at all about Noah. I also think it is easy to read this account of his experience and be uncertain about how he has changed. He mentions, at the start, that cancelling "those who are attempting to grow is such a counterproductive and potentially dangerous trend" - but I do not understand from this article how he is attempting to grow. Instead, I see a disagreement about how to deal with his past behavior. [1] https://www.thisamericanlife.org/674/transcript https://www.thisamericanlife.org/674/transcript
nvahalik 5y ago
Sometimes people don't want to talk about it. I know society likes to paint people in terms of victims and culprits but people _can_ change. When this happens, sometimes you cut off those parts of your life and then you don't go back. It's hard enough to forgive yourself at times and it takes strength to realize what kind of person you were back then and try to reconcile that with now. Here's an example of that learning: he obviously has turned from some sort of jerk into someone whose wife didn't want to leave him after all of this happened. Seems like a big change to me.
noahbradley 5y ago
Fair point! I guess I was writing this to people who have already heard the story. But I do get into what happened and why it happened in the podcast I recorded, if you're genuinely interested (and have some time to spare). Put simply, there's a lot to cover here. There's a lot of history, context, perspective, etc. and covering it all would take, well, probably a book. I couldn't get it all in this article, but maybe I should have included a little more on the lessons I learned before and why I had already changed. Next time.
- avs733 5y ago
  this is typical of people self-labeling as, and seeking pity for, being 'cancelled' in my experience... What happened is quickly glossed over in vague terms with a half hearted apology and treated as a mere unimportant sideshow to the real problem: I faced consequences. Ignoring the pushback or saying 'well I could have provided more detail about what I learned as a person' isn't actually explaining what you did wrong. There is a big gap between 'acting like an asshole' (to use your language) and 'being a sexual predator' (to use another headline). Those details matter - because they frame the rest of the description of what happened. It's the head nod to 'I'm sorry if anyone was offended' so we can get to the real topic... The real topic is claiming victimhood when the consequences of one's behavior come out. No challenge of facts, of what others are saying, simply an acclimation that you are put upon based on your evaluation of the consequences. By bypassing all of that, you are starting from the idea that you (and your wife) are really the victim here and building that narrative very intentionally. These types of articles are basically an argument by assertion that accountability is not important. Cancel culture is not real - the term 'cancel culture' is an attempt to recuperate[0] the language of equal rights and justice to protect people from the consequences of their actions. You're sitting here writing a blog post about this. It's on the front page of HN, you posted about it on your twitter. Please... [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recuperation_(politics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recuperation_(politics)
  - robocat 5y ago
    Do you believe every man is a liar? Can a man change their spots? Is it acceptable to attack someone in the court of Twitter, victimise them, hurt them, and hurt their friends and family? Should society try to help everyone learn to be better, or should society righteously punish those who trangress the invisible boundaries of decency? His narrative is certainly believable, although I am in no position to judge your accusations against him. I fear to even answer you, as I am sure others are, because perhaps you are someone to start a crusade against me for no reason more than you have the ability to do so. All adults need to take some responsibility for his his actions: he is steeped in a society that tacitly accepts womanising in its media (think “Two and a Half Men”), a society that has accepted sleezing as a valid sport (jock culture). Neither you nor I accepts such hideous behaviour, but clearly we are not yet winning against the wider society of the world, and what should we do with those that get sucked into red pill culture? I am not apologising for his behaviours, nor am I defending myself by proxy. I do fear for where “cancel culture” is trending towards silencing any discourse. (Disclaimer: I am a white guy who isn’t in the US. I try to always do my best, although I am as fallible as any other person). Edit: perhaps this comment would have been safer made using a throwaway account?
dylan-m 5y ago
> I do not see a lot of learning they have done from being cancelled. That's the mob mentality speaking. Just because a bunch of assholes on the internet took something they said out of context, and refused to acknowledge that people other than themselves are not objects and are capable of changing over time, that doesn't mean the person they targeted needs to "learn" anything except that people on the internet are assholes.
- shadeslayer_ 5y ago
  I don't understand. If they are capable of changing over time, surely they are capable of looking back on their past selves and acknowledging what was wrong with them?
hn8788 5y ago
The post says that there isn't much learning to show because he's not that person any more, and being cancelled happened long after he had already stopped doing the bad behavior.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

mrkurt 5y ago

There's a little more context here: https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/noah-bradley-admits-to-being-a-sexual-predator-at-art-industry-events/ https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/noah-bradley-admi...

kstrauser 5y ago
> “I was terrible to women,” Bradley wrote. “I preyed on them. I ceaselessly hit on them. I pressured them into sex. I got too drunk and did all manner of dumb things. Yes, I was one of those shitty, creepy sexual predators you hear about.” This is literally the first I've heard of Bradley, and I have no knowledge of him outside of this HN post. That's a pretty self-damning quote, though.
- noahbradley 5y ago
  Yep, it is. I was trying to take full ownership of what I was like and overplayed what I had done in an effort to not seem like I was downplaying it. It's dumb in hindsight but there it is.
  - jrochkind1 5y ago
    I don't know if you overplayed it, or if if you were dumb. You had in the past done some terrible things, you agree. The internet these days tries to utterly destroy people for having in the past done terrible things, with no way out. This does not in fact make it less likely for people to do terrible things; it does make it less likely for them to admit to them (even to themselves), to apologize to those who have hurt, or to do what those they have hurt need for repair and redress. So, that's not great, all around, it's true. It's a problem. This response does not actually reduce harm, it just further treats people as disposable. But if, say, the people you had hurt needed/wanted to hear you say it like that publicly? Then you did the right thing, you didn't do a dumb thing. You owed it to them regardless of consequences, because of the harm you caused. And I respect it. And I think you can feel good about owning up to the terrible things you did, instead of feeling dumb about it, it's the right thing to have done -- which doesn't mean you have to think "the internets" (or your friends :( ) response to you was appropriate. I'm glad you are figuring out a way out of the hole, and I'm glad you have figured out how to stop treating people like you did in your youth. I respect the way you tell the story without trying to excuse or escape the harm you caused in your youth.
  - LegitShady 5y ago
    your mistake was apologizing and playing into the game at all. Extracting an apology from the accused is part of the cancellation process. Now they don't have to justify at all - they can point to your own admissions and say 'see even he agrees he's a sexual predator'. Now you can be blamed for your own cancellation, so any action against you is permissable. You admitted to 'preying' on women. You gave them an excuse that will never die. The mob is never satisfied. The mob will never accept an apology. The mob will never stop. You can never address a mob. They are only chasing you, or you're part of them. The target of the mob is dehumanized and blamed for their own persecution. That's you.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

pdonis 5y ago

> I really wish there was a bit more introspection into how you see your past behaviour in the light of being cancelled. I don't get this comment. The author says explicitly that he was an asshole in the past, that he changed who he was, and that he apologized privately to the people he had hurt. What more do you want?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
long_time_gone 5y ago
He has also admitted to “pressuring women into sex” in other posts. Does apologizing just wipe all that away? How would he know if he apologized to every person he hurt?
aeturnum 5y ago
I think this quote from the article is a good example: >I don’t think I can fully describe the heart-wrenching pain of seeing your life & career crumbling around you and feeling utterly powerless to stop it. I thought I was fast approaching my inevitable and permanent end. I don’t cry often, but I cried a lot that night. The author has harsh words for his previous behavior, but the question I have is about the sentiment at the center of his reflection on the experience: if he had agency in the attacks on him. I certainly believe that he does not think he does. A lot of this comes down to deeply personal questions about how to address misbehavior and what we expect from other people. I do not know the details of what Noah did or what the people he mistreated want, but in his incomplete account I can certainly think of things that jump out to me. - He says that no one has accused him of raping them. I personally know people who were raped and never accused their rapists. It was not worth the trouble or they did not have the social capital or they did not want to pursue law enforcement. How much introspection Noah should have depends a lot on the specifics but is it certainly not clearly enough to say that you didn't do something because no one accused you. That's not reflection. - At the end of the day no one has an obligation to like you. It is not up to the perpetrator to decide what the appropriate restorative process is. We do not need a legal system to give us permission to dislike someone. - He says, towards the end "If you’ve been cancelled and want someone to talk with who won’t shame or judge you, shoot me a message." I mean...I suppose I get what he means, but it seems hard to simultaneously put forth that your previous behavior was wrong and should be judged harshly and also that you will not judge others for their previous behavior. I am all for a path to restoration, but if I am to believe in reform I would like to see a more complex understanding than I get from this essay. I believe any real path to restoration must include judgement about past misdeeds. I think about the Dan Harmon apology for the sexual harassment her perpetrated against a coworker[1]. It has its own flaws and, to a degree, I think it overly-centers Harmon, but one thing I think it gets very right is that Harmon made sure to apologize in a way that was accepted by his victims and was detailed about his misbehavior. He is clear-eyed about the way that he took advantage of his power, how selfish and small his motivations were, and how much damage he did to his victims. His apology feels merciless to his past self in a way that I do not see in Noah's account. Now maybe Noah has fully satisfied his victims and they simply do not want to go public and ofc that changes my understanding of this situation. But I do not get the same unceasingly unsympathetic treatment of Noah's past behavior. He seems like he wants it to go away rather than make it part of his story and, I think, that approach feels less fully-engaged than others that I've seen. Ultimately accounts like this, where we are all judging behavior of strangers we haven't meet in past events we did not experience, are always questionable. I don't feel certain at all about Noah. I also think it is easy to read this account of his experience and be uncertain about how he has changed. He mentions, at the start, that cancelling "those who are attempting to grow is such a counterproductive and potentially dangerous trend" - but I do not understand from this article how he is attempting to grow. Instead, I see a disagreement about how to deal with his past behavior. [1] https://www.thisamericanlife.org/674/transcript https://www.thisamericanlife.org/674/transcript

nvahalik 5y ago

Sometimes people don't want to talk about it. I know society likes to paint people in terms of victims and culprits but people _can_ change. When this happens, sometimes you cut off those parts of your life and then you don't go back. It's hard enough to forgive yourself at times and it takes strength to realize what kind of person you were back then and try to reconcile that with now. Here's an example of that learning: he obviously has turned from some sort of jerk into someone whose wife didn't want to leave him after all of this happened. Seems like a big change to me.

noahbradley 5y ago

Fair point! I guess I was writing this to people who have already heard the story. But I do get into what happened and why it happened in the podcast I recorded, if you're genuinely interested (and have some time to spare). Put simply, there's a lot to cover here. There's a lot of history, context, perspective, etc. and covering it all would take, well, probably a book. I couldn't get it all in this article, but maybe I should have included a little more on the lessons I learned before and why I had already changed. Next time.

avs733 5y ago
this is typical of people self-labeling as, and seeking pity for, being 'cancelled' in my experience... What happened is quickly glossed over in vague terms with a half hearted apology and treated as a mere unimportant sideshow to the real problem: I faced consequences. Ignoring the pushback or saying 'well I could have provided more detail about what I learned as a person' isn't actually explaining what you did wrong. There is a big gap between 'acting like an asshole' (to use your language) and 'being a sexual predator' (to use another headline). Those details matter - because they frame the rest of the description of what happened. It's the head nod to 'I'm sorry if anyone was offended' so we can get to the real topic... The real topic is claiming victimhood when the consequences of one's behavior come out. No challenge of facts, of what others are saying, simply an acclimation that you are put upon based on your evaluation of the consequences. By bypassing all of that, you are starting from the idea that you (and your wife) are really the victim here and building that narrative very intentionally. These types of articles are basically an argument by assertion that accountability is not important. Cancel culture is not real - the term 'cancel culture' is an attempt to recuperate[0] the language of equal rights and justice to protect people from the consequences of their actions. You're sitting here writing a blog post about this. It's on the front page of HN, you posted about it on your twitter. Please... [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recuperation_(politics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recuperation_(politics)
- robocat 5y ago
  Do you believe every man is a liar? Can a man change their spots? Is it acceptable to attack someone in the court of Twitter, victimise them, hurt them, and hurt their friends and family? Should society try to help everyone learn to be better, or should society righteously punish those who trangress the invisible boundaries of decency? His narrative is certainly believable, although I am in no position to judge your accusations against him. I fear to even answer you, as I am sure others are, because perhaps you are someone to start a crusade against me for no reason more than you have the ability to do so. All adults need to take some responsibility for his his actions: he is steeped in a society that tacitly accepts womanising in its media (think “Two and a Half Men”), a society that has accepted sleezing as a valid sport (jock culture). Neither you nor I accepts such hideous behaviour, but clearly we are not yet winning against the wider society of the world, and what should we do with those that get sucked into red pill culture? I am not apologising for his behaviours, nor am I defending myself by proxy. I do fear for where “cancel culture” is trending towards silencing any discourse. (Disclaimer: I am a white guy who isn’t in the US. I try to always do my best, although I am as fallible as any other person). Edit: perhaps this comment would have been safer made using a throwaway account?

dylan-m 5y ago

> I do not see a lot of learning they have done from being cancelled. That's the mob mentality speaking. Just because a bunch of assholes on the internet took something they said out of context, and refused to acknowledge that people other than themselves are not objects and are capable of changing over time, that doesn't mean the person they targeted needs to "learn" anything except that people on the internet are assholes.

shadeslayer_ 5y ago
I don't understand. If they are capable of changing over time, surely they are capable of looking back on their past selves and acknowledging what was wrong with them?

hn8788 5y ago

The post says that there isn't much learning to show because he's not that person any more, and being cancelled happened long after he had already stopped doing the bad behavior.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]