6 ms·

> Except what do you call an actual ponzi scheme now? Yeah, that's the problem with bandying words around without care to their meaning. This is happening wit

by eloff 5y ago

> Except what do you call an actual ponzi scheme now? Yeah, that's the problem with bandying words around without care to their meaning. This is happening with fascists/ Nazis more often lately in society. I feel that's a bad thing because there are still torch carrying Nazis out there, they're dangerous, and now we don't have a word for them that carries the same weight. It gets watered down when you use it to refer to anyone center or right of center politically. Jordan Peterson is a Canadian, mostly liberal, left of center academic and the press frequently refers to him as fascist. That just doesn't work.

isoprophlex 5y ago
"Extreme right activists/terrorists with Nazi sympathies"?
- ghufran_syed 5y ago
  What evidence is there for widespread “nazi sympathies”? As opposed to tiny numbers of idiots? https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/all-american-nazis-628023/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/all-amer... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism
  - eloff 5y ago
    The OP did not use the word widespread. You're right there's no evidence it is widespread in the US. Maybe in some other counties.
LatteLazy 5y ago
I wouldn't call him a fascist. That said, there are a lot of fascists in the mainstream right now. And the number of swastikas (of a non-religious nature) is the highest its been since about 1945...
CalChris 5y ago
Speaking of bandying words, when Peterson refers to himself as a classical British liberal, he means free market and not progressive. The NYTimes rates him as conservative leaning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson#Political_views https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson#Political_view...
- eloff 5y ago
  I'm not going by what he calls himself, I judge him to be left of center for the US (that might put him right of center in Canada). The NYT are entitled to their opinion as well.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    Yeah, no. Peterson is conservative in literally any country in the world. Advocating for traditional gender roles, saying women might not be suited for the workplace, advocating for strict hierarchies and so on is deeply conservative. His belief in genetic predeterninism of societal structures and of thought patterns - masqueraded as Jungian archetypes - is indicative of a worldview just one logical step from the far right. I don't know if any country in the world where he would left of center religion notwithstanding. I say this as someone who watched at least 150 hours of Peterson and who used to follow much of his views.
    - eloff 5y ago
      > Advocating for traditional gender roles, saying women might not be suited for the workplace, advocating for strict hierarchies and so on is deeply conservative. Those are strawman arguments. That's not what he advocates at all. He definitely does argue there are fundamental differences between men and women and what the ramifications of those differences are - that's obvious to anyone, even children. We can argue about those ramifications, but not that there are differences. I don't see how you go from there to your argument, logically. > His belief in genetic predeterninism of societal structures and of thought patterns - masqueraded as Jungian archetypes - is indicative of a worldview just one logical step from the far right. Again strawnan, he definitely argues it's part of the picture, but not the whole picture. Anyone who takes just one side in the nature vs nuture debate is out to lunch. It's obviously both. I don't think your characterizations are balanced or correct.
edgyquant 5y ago
Please dude, Peterson is a conservative and is in no way left of center except that he claims that so he can argue with other right wingers as the “liberal” of the group.
tomjakubowski 5y ago
Went looking for the press labeling Jordan Peterson a fascist. I found this article, associating him with intellectual foundations of fascism but not outright calling him one. This is the article Peterson flipped out about on Twitter, saying he would "slap" the author. https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/19/jordan-peterson-and-fascist-mysticism/ https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/19/jordan-peterson-and... https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/975941537619107840?lang=en https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/97594153761910784... If this happens frequently, surely you could link to a few more instances? I can't find any others.
- eloff 5y ago
  There was Lindsay Shepherd who was reprimanded by her supervisor for playing a clip of Peterson in class: as akin to “neutrally playing a speech by Hitler”. That's not the press though. Usually, the word they use is alt-right. You might have more luck with that on Google.

by eloff 5y ago

isoprophlex 5y ago

"Extreme right activists/terrorists with Nazi sympathies"?

ghufran_syed 5y ago
What evidence is there for widespread “nazi sympathies”? As opposed to tiny numbers of idiots? https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/all-american-nazis-628023/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/all-amer... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism
- eloff 5y ago
  The OP did not use the word widespread. You're right there's no evidence it is widespread in the US. Maybe in some other counties.

LatteLazy 5y ago

I wouldn't call him a fascist. That said, there are a lot of fascists in the mainstream right now. And the number of swastikas (of a non-religious nature) is the highest its been since about 1945...

CalChris 5y ago

Speaking of bandying words, when Peterson refers to himself as a classical British liberal, he means free market and not progressive. The NYTimes rates him as conservative leaning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson#Political_views https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson#Political_view...

eloff 5y ago
I'm not going by what he calls himself, I judge him to be left of center for the US (that might put him right of center in Canada). The NYT are entitled to their opinion as well.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Yeah, no. Peterson is conservative in literally any country in the world. Advocating for traditional gender roles, saying women might not be suited for the workplace, advocating for strict hierarchies and so on is deeply conservative. His belief in genetic predeterninism of societal structures and of thought patterns - masqueraded as Jungian archetypes - is indicative of a worldview just one logical step from the far right. I don't know if any country in the world where he would left of center religion notwithstanding. I say this as someone who watched at least 150 hours of Peterson and who used to follow much of his views.
  - eloff 5y ago
    > Advocating for traditional gender roles, saying women might not be suited for the workplace, advocating for strict hierarchies and so on is deeply conservative. Those are strawman arguments. That's not what he advocates at all. He definitely does argue there are fundamental differences between men and women and what the ramifications of those differences are - that's obvious to anyone, even children. We can argue about those ramifications, but not that there are differences. I don't see how you go from there to your argument, logically. > His belief in genetic predeterninism of societal structures and of thought patterns - masqueraded as Jungian archetypes - is indicative of a worldview just one logical step from the far right. Again strawnan, he definitely argues it's part of the picture, but not the whole picture. Anyone who takes just one side in the nature vs nuture debate is out to lunch. It's obviously both. I don't think your characterizations are balanced or correct.

edgyquant 5y ago

Please dude, Peterson is a conservative and is in no way left of center except that he claims that so he can argue with other right wingers as the “liberal” of the group.

tomjakubowski 5y ago

Went looking for the press labeling Jordan Peterson a fascist. I found this article, associating him with intellectual foundations of fascism but not outright calling him one. This is the article Peterson flipped out about on Twitter, saying he would "slap" the author. https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/19/jordan-peterson-and-fascist-mysticism/ https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/19/jordan-peterson-and... https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/975941537619107840?lang=en https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/97594153761910784... If this happens frequently, surely you could link to a few more instances? I can't find any others.

eloff 5y ago
There was Lindsay Shepherd who was reprimanded by her supervisor for playing a clip of Peterson in class: as akin to “neutrally playing a speech by Hitler”. That's not the press though. Usually, the word they use is alt-right. You might have more luck with that on Google.