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Effective at what exactly, though? That is the question being answered by this article. It suggests that it is effective at pseudo-activism but not real activi
by 9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago
Effective at what exactly, though?
That is the question being answered by this article. It suggests that it is effective at pseudo-activism but not real activism.
- makomk 5y agoWell, one thing it's definitely very effective at is perpetuating itself to the exclusion of any kind of more thoughtful or complex activism. This is probably a problem.
- mistermann 5y agoTrue, but is this the fault of memes, or perhaps more so due to the fact that an internet platform specifically designed for nuanced, accurate, high quality conversations about complex topics does not exist (and is rarely discussed)...not to mention the questionable availability of a sufficiently skilled in thinking and discussion userbase?
- 9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y agoThis very platform is founded on interesting discussion.
- mistermann 5y agoDid you miss anything in my comment perhaps? Is internet discussion as implemented on HN the pinnacle of what can be achieved by humanity? This seems like a worthwhile topic of discussion.
- 9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y agoIt could very well be both the pinnacle (or an approximation of it) of humanity and a worthwhile topic of discussion.
- mistermann 5y agoI think it would be cool if HN had meta-discussions now and then where people could throw out various different ideas, I don't recall there ever being such a thing here before though. I think it's an interesting idea (maybe not for HN, but in general): a social media platform whose functionality is (largely) designed/guided by the users.
- 9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y agoIronic that the fact that your comment is on a startup news discussion site, points out a glaring need in the public sphere, one which could be fulfilled by a startup, and it gets downvoted to the point of being grayed out.
- mistermann 5y agoIronic, and utterly fascinating if you really think about it. And it is not a one off by the way, here elsewhere. In my experience, this is almost bordering on some sort of an unrealized constant in nature. An even better example I think is this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27581414 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27581414 That exchange blows my mind, the irony (and other things) is off the charts. Occam's razor would suggest Hanlon's razor as a satisfactory explanation for that conversation, but I am very skeptical.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- watwut 5y agoWhat makes you say more thoughtful activism dont exist anymore? Whede I followed activists, their activity did not went down with these. Occasionally they uses them, occasionally not, occasionally they disagreed. But I did not seen them stop original activity or complain about memes all that much. It is way more often people who did not cared about activism who complain about lack of it due to memes. Like, not everyone has to care about activism, but it is odd to claim it dont exist anymore.
- luffapi 5y agoThe article literally starts with a story about how “meme activism” (aka slogans) was effective.
- 9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y agoLiterally, it used the words “powerful”, “widespread”, “helpful”, “dark”, and “destructive”. Not the word “effective”.
- luffapi 5y agoThe very first paragraph: > A few weeks ago, in the midst of the latest Israel-Hamas conflict, Andrew Yang, a mayoral candidate in New York, tweeted in support of Israel. The backlash came fast, and by the next day, #YangSupportsGenocide was trending on Twitter. The aggressive public shaming worked: Yang backtracked and issued a follow-up clarification. And now, politicians with progressive constituencies will likely think twice before publicly expressing support for Israel.
- 9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago> aggressive public shaming worked Being the key. Does not imply that meme activism was effective at doing anything but making people think twice out of fear of shame, not out of reasoned principles.
- luffapi 5y agoIf it accomplished its goal, then it was effective. Are there other goals to accomplish? Sure, but to say this wasn’t effective is incorrect.
- 9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y agoI’ll grant that it meets the definition of being striking, but not that it meets the intended goals of activism. The entire point of the article is that this style of pseudo-activism debases activism, as a whole.
- Jtsummers 5y agoIt can be effective in real activism especially if it's capable of shutting down dissent. Whether it's effective for activism you agree with or activism you disagree with is a separate matter. To stay away from politics and stick to the programming domain, the phrase "structured programming" was chosen because who would want to say they're for "unstructured programming". It worked, the languages and language features we use today were largely shifted away from goto-heavy code (and computed goto in Fortran and some others) because of this kind of meme activism.
- ddingus 5y agoIt can also be a great conversation starter. Memes can make everyone involved think. And then if some start talking, common basis for solidarity can be found. If you ask me, memes are doing a lot to generate the fertile ground needed for greater class awareness and solidarity. Lots of noise in that, but it is the signal that adds right up. In any case, there is no stopping any of it. I would bot even try. One can generate better ones and contribute to signal. That is also effective.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]