8 ms·

OnlyFans seeks new funding and a pivot away from porn

32 points by xenocyon 5y ago

rarec 5y ago
Sounds like what caused the mindshare death of Tumblr. Pivoting away from the core reason you make money even if it's not the intended use case seems like a great way to cause the death of your company.
- whateveracct 5y ago
  Tumblr is doing fine though. The people making good posts & talking to each other didn't leave. It may be fewer users (and fewer $$), but tumblr is waaay better since the NSFW ban. And I'd even say due to it.
  - TX0098812 5y ago
    Hmm.. "tumblr is waaay better since the NSFW ban" and "It may be fewer users (and fewer $$)" These don't seem to add up.
    - whateveracct 5y ago
      Yes they do. There's as much or more tumblr activity for my dashboard & on my blog. I get way fewer porn spam bots following me now. And people generally seem to be happy with the website & are continuing to use it to talk about the stuff they like.
    - whateveracct 5y ago
      Do you think the value judgment of tumblr should be based on revenue or user count?
  - Mediterraneo10 5y ago
    Not only did Tumblr activity collapse after the NSFW ban, but in the subjects I follow, activity seems to have settled on a niche of transwomen blogging about hobby or interest X, where their posts are mainly about being a transwoman interested in such things and not the hobby or interest itself. I understand that Tumblr has value for those transwomen wanting to express themselves and build community with others, but it has become a network relevant to only a tiny, tiny percentage of the population.
    - whateveracct 5y ago
      Tumblr has plenty of discussion about hobbies, TV shows, anime, video games, etc. If you like a certain thing, tumblr is a great way to be exposed to people discussing it, making text jokes about it, making fanart about it, etc. That has been literally unaffected by the NSFW ban in the many fandoms I follow on it. There are people like you describe, but it doesn't dominate the platform imo. It's easy enough to get a lot out of tumblr.
    - fshbbdssbbgdd 5y ago
      Is it possible you are in some kind of algorithm filter bubble?
      - Mediterraneo10 5y ago
        No, it’s just that intellectual subjects on Tumblr always attracted a certain share of neuroatypical people, and once the majority of users left Tumblr, only the neuroatypical remained.
  - moralestapia 5y ago
    >Tumblr is doing fine though. Citation needed. My impression is their MAU and time spent on site went to the floor.
    - whateveracct 5y ago
      ? those metrics do not affect how good of a product and website it is for me and all the people who use it tho maybe if you have your business boy hat on for some reason it isn't doing fine?
      - elliekelly 5y ago
        You’re forgetting that those metrics are hugely important to tumblr because those metrics are hugely important to tumblr’s customers: advertisers. The reason they claim the policy change was necessary in the first place. I don’t know what you mean by “business boy hat” - could this be a typo?
        whateveracct 5y ago
        well they had the indirect effect of making the product better for their (unpaying) users. When it comes to tumblr, I quite frankly don't give 2 shits about their advertisers. Why should I? Maybe the site will be shut down someday? You'd think that ship would've sailed.
      - moralestapia 5y ago
        What? You're delusional. Those metrics are literally the bread and butter of social networks.
        whateveracct 5y ago
        I am talking from the perspective of a user. Those metrics have 0 impact on me as a user (outside of the company going under - or ruining itself in the name of more money.) There's no delusion here. The users that remain on tumblr seem pretty happy about the effects of the nsfw ban. The people that left due to it weren't the good ones for the most part.
- hinkley 5y ago
  Why not fork instead of pivot? Why do we have to do this other thing too, instead of having a subsidiary that does that other thing? Is it because we've vastly overestimated the power of the network effect?
  - ac29 5y ago
    > Why not fork instead of pivot? Remember Qwikster?
    - EduardoBautista 5y ago
      That wasn’t a fork though. Qwikster was Netflix separating itself into two distinct businesses with very different offerings (movies by mail vs streaming).
- BoxOfRain 5y ago
  Reminds me of Yik Yak a bit, the user count dropped like the Titanic because they attempted to pivot away from the main reason people were using the platform to begin with (in this case anonymous posts).
andrewmcwatters 5y ago
Why do this and not just create an OnlyHoldings with OnlyFans as one of the wholly owned companies, and divert some capital from that business into a new venture then cross-promote on the existing platform.
- Ken_At_EM 5y ago
  I personally would agree with this approach. It sounds like someone on their leadership team was never fundamentally or spiritually at peace with being a platform for pornography.
Giorgi 5y ago
Ah yes, kill the business model that makes you popular, like digg, and tumblr
- whateveracct 5y ago
  porn wasn't what made tumblr likeable though..
  - genmud 5y ago
    Yea, but it was a huge amount of their traffic [1] and they never have recovered [2]. Even during the pandemic, while people were spending more time online, tumblrs usage has been lackluster, while other sites like fb have had consistent growth [3]. So, to say porn might not have been what made it likeable might be true, but porn certainly was one of the big drivers of traffic. [1] - https://www.statista.com/chart/17378/tumblr-traffic/ https://www.statista.com/chart/17378/tumblr-traffic/ [2] - https://www.statista.com/statistics/261925/unique-visitors-to-tumblrcom/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/261925/unique-visitors-t... [3] - https://www.statista.com/statistics/346167/facebook-global-dau/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/346167/facebook-global-d...
    - whateveracct 5y ago
      the site is better without that traffic tbh i'm discussing the site as a product. it's a better product now, and that sentiment is pretty widespread by its engaged users. Sending the porn to other, more growth-obsessed platforms was worth it. How long tumblr will last - i don't know. Its users are not very monetizable. But as a social media website, it is comically superior to twitter and facebook. And my argument is the exact things that cause you to say it is bad are why it is superior.
      - Jcowell 5y ago
        I disagree. If a social media website is a business and it killing its main attraction harms its business prospects , it’s products have not improved. How much a product is worth is a major factor into what makes a product better or worse. By removing porn and thus it’s traffic , Tumblr has become a third grade social media site to advertisers.
Nextgrid 5y ago
> It’s also looking to attract more advertisers, some of which may be wary of its porn ties. I don't understand why a profitable company wants to attract this cancer.
- evgen 5y ago
  If I were to guess it would be that to those on the inside it is obvious where the PPV porn numbers top out at in terms of near-future revenue and that these numbers are not sufficient to justify the valuation growth that they want to see. Profitable is nice, but if you want to build a unicorn you have to aim for bigger profits and lower risk than what the current OnlyFans model provides.
  - Barrin92 5y ago
    I really dislike this entire mentality so much. At what point did we go from a place where you have a diverse set of companies making good revenues and profits and serve their audiences well to this crappy model of everyone trying to be the next Instagram. Adult content creators are probably going to get booted off at some point for 'ad-friendliness' despite the fact that they helped build most of it.
    - bsder 5y ago
      On the Internet, you're either growing or dying. Do we have even a single example of an Internet company that has been constant and consistently profitable over 10 years? Tarsnap, maybe?
      - wand3r 5y ago
        Basecamp
        bsder 5y ago
        Who seem to have recently had a meltdown and compensation seems to be part of it.
ozten 5y ago
Recently there was a great interview on IndieHackers with two of the top earners on OnlyFans https://www.indiehackers.com/podcast/211-aella-savannah-solo https://www.indiehackers.com/podcast/211-aella-savannah-solo
rowanG077 5y ago
Pivot away from the model that has made you great. What could go wrong.
elliekelly 5y ago
> Companies such as Sticky’s Finger Joint, a restaurant chain specializing in chicken fingers, have joined OnlyFans as part of their marketing strategies. I assume people aren’t paying a monthly subscription to follow their favorite chicken finger company. So is OnlyFans trying to pivot into the next big social media platform? Are they trying to compete with Cameo and Patreon or are they trying to compete with Facebook/Instagram and Twitter?
Cyril_HN 5y ago
This could be great for their porn business. How many people don't subscribe to OnlyFans because it shows up on their bank statement and it means 'I pay people to make porn'? This could add the degree of plausible deniability needed (for banks, spouses, etc.) to make people much more comfortable.

32 points by xenocyon 5y ago

Sounds like what caused the mindshare death of Tumblr. Pivoting away from the core reason you make money even if it's not the intended use case seems like a great way to cause the death of your company.

whateveracct 5y ago
Tumblr is doing fine though. The people making good posts & talking to each other didn't leave. It may be fewer users (and fewer $$), but tumblr is waaay better since the NSFW ban. And I'd even say due to it.
- TX0098812 5y ago
  Hmm.. "tumblr is waaay better since the NSFW ban" and "It may be fewer users (and fewer $$)" These don't seem to add up.
  - whateveracct 5y ago
    Yes they do. There's as much or more tumblr activity for my dashboard & on my blog. I get way fewer porn spam bots following me now. And people generally seem to be happy with the website & are continuing to use it to talk about the stuff they like.
  - whateveracct 5y ago
    Do you think the value judgment of tumblr should be based on revenue or user count?
- Mediterraneo10 5y ago
  Not only did Tumblr activity collapse after the NSFW ban, but in the subjects I follow, activity seems to have settled on a niche of transwomen blogging about hobby or interest X, where their posts are mainly about being a transwoman interested in such things and not the hobby or interest itself. I understand that Tumblr has value for those transwomen wanting to express themselves and build community with others, but it has become a network relevant to only a tiny, tiny percentage of the population.
  - whateveracct 5y ago
    Tumblr has plenty of discussion about hobbies, TV shows, anime, video games, etc. If you like a certain thing, tumblr is a great way to be exposed to people discussing it, making text jokes about it, making fanart about it, etc. That has been literally unaffected by the NSFW ban in the many fandoms I follow on it. There are people like you describe, but it doesn't dominate the platform imo. It's easy enough to get a lot out of tumblr.
  - fshbbdssbbgdd 5y ago
    Is it possible you are in some kind of algorithm filter bubble?
    - Mediterraneo10 5y ago
      No, it’s just that intellectual subjects on Tumblr always attracted a certain share of neuroatypical people, and once the majority of users left Tumblr, only the neuroatypical remained.
- moralestapia 5y ago
  >Tumblr is doing fine though. Citation needed. My impression is their MAU and time spent on site went to the floor.
  - whateveracct 5y ago
    ? those metrics do not affect how good of a product and website it is for me and all the people who use it tho maybe if you have your business boy hat on for some reason it isn't doing fine?
    - elliekelly 5y ago
      You’re forgetting that those metrics are hugely important to tumblr because those metrics are hugely important to tumblr’s customers: advertisers. The reason they claim the policy change was necessary in the first place. I don’t know what you mean by “business boy hat” - could this be a typo?
      - whateveracct 5y ago
        well they had the indirect effect of making the product better for their (unpaying) users. When it comes to tumblr, I quite frankly don't give 2 shits about their advertisers. Why should I? Maybe the site will be shut down someday? You'd think that ship would've sailed.
    - moralestapia 5y ago
      What? You're delusional. Those metrics are literally the bread and butter of social networks.
      - whateveracct 5y ago
        I am talking from the perspective of a user. Those metrics have 0 impact on me as a user (outside of the company going under - or ruining itself in the name of more money.) There's no delusion here. The users that remain on tumblr seem pretty happy about the effects of the nsfw ban. The people that left due to it weren't the good ones for the most part.
hinkley 5y ago
Why not fork instead of pivot? Why do we have to do this other thing too, instead of having a subsidiary that does that other thing? Is it because we've vastly overestimated the power of the network effect?
- ac29 5y ago
  > Why not fork instead of pivot? Remember Qwikster?
  - EduardoBautista 5y ago
    That wasn’t a fork though. Qwikster was Netflix separating itself into two distinct businesses with very different offerings (movies by mail vs streaming).
BoxOfRain 5y ago
Reminds me of Yik Yak a bit, the user count dropped like the Titanic because they attempted to pivot away from the main reason people were using the platform to begin with (in this case anonymous posts).

andrewmcwatters 5y ago

Why do this and not just create an OnlyHoldings with OnlyFans as one of the wholly owned companies, and divert some capital from that business into a new venture then cross-promote on the existing platform.

Ken_At_EM 5y ago
I personally would agree with this approach. It sounds like someone on their leadership team was never fundamentally or spiritually at peace with being a platform for pornography.

Giorgi 5y ago

Ah yes, kill the business model that makes you popular, like digg, and tumblr

whateveracct 5y ago
porn wasn't what made tumblr likeable though..
- genmud 5y ago
  Yea, but it was a huge amount of their traffic [1] and they never have recovered [2]. Even during the pandemic, while people were spending more time online, tumblrs usage has been lackluster, while other sites like fb have had consistent growth [3]. So, to say porn might not have been what made it likeable might be true, but porn certainly was one of the big drivers of traffic. [1] - https://www.statista.com/chart/17378/tumblr-traffic/ https://www.statista.com/chart/17378/tumblr-traffic/ [2] - https://www.statista.com/statistics/261925/unique-visitors-to-tumblrcom/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/261925/unique-visitors-t... [3] - https://www.statista.com/statistics/346167/facebook-global-dau/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/346167/facebook-global-d...
  - whateveracct 5y ago
    the site is better without that traffic tbh i'm discussing the site as a product. it's a better product now, and that sentiment is pretty widespread by its engaged users. Sending the porn to other, more growth-obsessed platforms was worth it. How long tumblr will last - i don't know. Its users are not very monetizable. But as a social media website, it is comically superior to twitter and facebook. And my argument is the exact things that cause you to say it is bad are why it is superior.
    - Jcowell 5y ago
      I disagree. If a social media website is a business and it killing its main attraction harms its business prospects , it’s products have not improved. How much a product is worth is a major factor into what makes a product better or worse. By removing porn and thus it’s traffic , Tumblr has become a third grade social media site to advertisers.

Nextgrid 5y ago

> It’s also looking to attract more advertisers, some of which may be wary of its porn ties. I don't understand why a profitable company wants to attract this cancer.

evgen 5y ago
If I were to guess it would be that to those on the inside it is obvious where the PPV porn numbers top out at in terms of near-future revenue and that these numbers are not sufficient to justify the valuation growth that they want to see. Profitable is nice, but if you want to build a unicorn you have to aim for bigger profits and lower risk than what the current OnlyFans model provides.
- Barrin92 5y ago
  I really dislike this entire mentality so much. At what point did we go from a place where you have a diverse set of companies making good revenues and profits and serve their audiences well to this crappy model of everyone trying to be the next Instagram. Adult content creators are probably going to get booted off at some point for 'ad-friendliness' despite the fact that they helped build most of it.
  - bsder 5y ago
    On the Internet, you're either growing or dying. Do we have even a single example of an Internet company that has been constant and consistently profitable over 10 years? Tarsnap, maybe?
    - wand3r 5y ago
      Basecamp
      - bsder 5y ago
        Who seem to have recently had a meltdown and compensation seems to be part of it.

ozten 5y ago

Recently there was a great interview on IndieHackers with two of the top earners on OnlyFans https://www.indiehackers.com/podcast/211-aella-savannah-solo https://www.indiehackers.com/podcast/211-aella-savannah-solo

rowanG077 5y ago

Pivot away from the model that has made you great. What could go wrong.

elliekelly 5y ago

> Companies such as Sticky’s Finger Joint, a restaurant chain specializing in chicken fingers, have joined OnlyFans as part of their marketing strategies. I assume people aren’t paying a monthly subscription to follow their favorite chicken finger company. So is OnlyFans trying to pivot into the next big social media platform? Are they trying to compete with Cameo and Patreon or are they trying to compete with Facebook/Instagram and Twitter?

Cyril_HN 5y ago

This could be great for their porn business. How many people don't subscribe to OnlyFans because it shows up on their bank statement and it means 'I pay people to make porn'? This could add the degree of plausible deniability needed (for banks, spouses, etc.) to make people much more comfortable.