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Exposure to “Western”/civilized values? What are you even talking about? Yes you can learn to be a script kiddy and plan heists without having the pledge of al

by rtpg 5y ago

Exposure to “Western”/civilized values? What are you even talking about? Yes you can learn to be a script kiddy and plan heists without having the pledge of allegiance as part of a balanced breakfast. Books and random websites and stuff! Not to mention that people from NK or China don’t just explode from logic errors after discovering Facebook. And yes people have ways of getting around internet blocking stuff for “reasons”. They get exposed to minion memes and come out without being totally radicalized.

a1369209993 5y ago
> > one needs the freedom of doing research, free access to information, Internet, thus exposure to "western"/civilized values, human rights, etc > What are you even talking about? Charitably, I assume they're talking about something like [0], although calling that ""western"/civilized values" is giving western civilization more credit than it deserves if recent sociopolitics (Facebook included) is any indication. 0: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/10/23/kolmogorov-complicity-and-the-parable-of-lightning/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/10/23/kolmogorov-complicity-...
- rtpg 5y ago
  I mean "lets purge our academics of non-believers" is a practice applied in basically every society, for time immemorial. The non-charitable reading is that they're implying that "access to information" is the blocker from NKers just rising up and accepting "western" norms, and _if only they knew how amazing society could be_, they would change their minds. It's the same brainworms as the liberal "oh, if only you knew all the facts then you would agree with me". It implies some sort of objective truth that western society has found, yet these societies haven't. Educated people in NK know about voting and democracy. It's not some super well-kept secret to keep the masses down. Censorship is just applied in much more banal ways (preventing too much embarassing information about people in power from spreading, and making it hard for any form of opposition to organize itself)
  - a1369209993 5y ago
    > "lets purge our academics of non-believers" is a practice applied in basically every society, for time immemorial. > > although calling that ""western"/civilized values" is giving western civilization more credit than it deserves > The non-charitable reading is <shrug> You asked what they were talking about; I gave a educated guess for the strongest plausible interpretation of what[0] they were saying, since it seemed non-obvious (certainly they did a poor job of expressing it if so). 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

by rtpg 5y ago

a1369209993 5y ago

> > one needs the freedom of doing research, free access to information, Internet, thus exposure to "western"/civilized values, human rights, etc > What are you even talking about? Charitably, I assume they're talking about something like [0], although calling that ""western"/civilized values" is giving western civilization more credit than it deserves if recent sociopolitics (Facebook included) is any indication. 0: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/10/23/kolmogorov-complicity-and-the-parable-of-lightning/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/10/23/kolmogorov-complicity-...

rtpg 5y ago
I mean "lets purge our academics of non-believers" is a practice applied in basically every society, for time immemorial. The non-charitable reading is that they're implying that "access to information" is the blocker from NKers just rising up and accepting "western" norms, and _if only they knew how amazing society could be_, they would change their minds. It's the same brainworms as the liberal "oh, if only you knew all the facts then you would agree with me". It implies some sort of objective truth that western society has found, yet these societies haven't. Educated people in NK know about voting and democracy. It's not some super well-kept secret to keep the masses down. Censorship is just applied in much more banal ways (preventing too much embarassing information about people in power from spreading, and making it hard for any form of opposition to organize itself)
- a1369209993 5y ago
  > "lets purge our academics of non-believers" is a practice applied in basically every society, for time immemorial. > > although calling that ""western"/civilized values" is giving western civilization more credit than it deserves > The non-charitable reading is <shrug> You asked what they were talking about; I gave a educated guess for the strongest plausible interpretation of what[0] they were saying, since it seemed non-obvious (certainly they did a poor job of expressing it if so). 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html