3 ms·

Intersex people exist at a rate of approximately 2 per 10,000: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12476264/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12476264/ Most people

Intersex people exist at a rate of approximately 2 per 10,000: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12476264/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12476264/ Most people will go their entire lives without ever meeting one. Do you really think these 2 out of 10,000 people are driving the changes we're seeing in locker rooms and women's sports?

thebooktocome 5y ago
I'm responding specifically to the parent's claim that only two sexes exist. You're projecting your own political anxiety into my comment. I'd rather you didn't do that. I know a handful of intersex people and would rather they not be erased. They suffer a lot of collateral damage from the "trans discourse".
- slumdev 5y ago
  There are only two human sexes. Genetic diseases that occur at a rate of 0.018% don't constitute additional categories.
  - thebooktocome 5y ago
    I hear you saying: "Intersex people don't exist. Intersex people do exist." You might want to reflect on that self-contradiction.
    - slumdev 5y ago
      1. Human beings have two arms and two legs. 2. Thalidomide caused some humans to develop without all four complete limbs. These people are still humans. Statements 1 and 2 aren't contradictory. 3. There are two human sexes. 4. Genetic anomalies cause some humans to develop without a complete set of the primary and secondary sexual characteristics of either sex. These people are still humans. Statements 3 and 4 aren't contradictory.
    - Chris2048 5y ago
      "there are only 2 human genders" does not contradict "Intersex people don't exist" because such a condition doesn't constitute a biological gender. If it did, it wouldn't be called a "disorder". That said, we can just agree on what words mean, if if there are discrepancies, we can just label alternate definitions, to ensure they remain consistent. Which still brings us to the question: why aren't men allowed in women's bathrooms? If it's just the physical possession of a penis, this would still disqualify many trans-women.
  - whatshisface 5y ago
    A category's a category if distinct items are in it. I think you are going for a more specific word than "a category." Perhaps, "social role that exists in the experience of most people?" That sounds like a good description of the two genders thing.
    - slumdev 5y ago
      There are two human sexes. Carrying a child in a uterus is not a social construct.
      - whatshisface 5y ago
        I think you gave a great example of how it's fuzzy at the boundaries, because infertile women are still women. I'm not saying this whole gender thing is made up, any alien would notice gender if they landed in central park, just that you can't get too metaphysical about it.
        slumdev 5y ago
        Your example illustrates the point perfectly, though. Infertility in someone who is of childbearing age is a problem. A bug, not a feature. Intersex conditions are similar. They don't diminish that person's dignity as a human, but the condition is unfortunate and anomalous.
- Chris2048 5y ago
  > I know a handful of intersex people How did you come to know a handful of intersex people? Since this is unlikely to happen at random, any non-random grouping process might produce a bias that would relevant provide context to anything you said on their behalf.
  - thebooktocome 5y ago
    You're really saying that no one who knows more than one intersex person is allowed to comment? Okay, I'll shut up. Have a nice day.
    - Chris2048 5y ago
      You're the one who used personal knowledge of intersex people a part of your argument, and authority on the topic - am I not allowed to interrogate that?
      - dang 5y ago
        Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27583439 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27583439.
        Chris2048 5y ago
        There are no complaints about downvoting in this comment. What about this comment do you believe breaks the guidelines. I'm not sure how I could of asked the original question any differently: If someone claimed to know several albinos, and in their experience found them to all wear purple sweaters - it might might be worth finding out that they met them at the purple-sweater-albinos meetup. If someone knows a statistically unlikely group, they are unlikely to have been selected at random, so they are not necessarily a representative sample. That's why when you put forward some element in an argument, it should be possible to interrogate it. I didn't express any doubt that they knew intersex people, nor did I say their argument invalid - in fact I explicitly said that it might produce a bias.
    - 5y ago
- leephillips 5y ago
  The existence of intersex people does not negate the fact that only two sexes exist. Every intersex person is either male or female. Intersex is an atypical development of male or female sexual characteristics, and males and females have distinct intersex conditions, specific to their sexes. A man with what appears to be female external anatomy is a man, although in some cases that might not be discovered until adulthood.

thebooktocome 5y ago

I'm responding specifically to the parent's claim that only two sexes exist. You're projecting your own political anxiety into my comment. I'd rather you didn't do that. I know a handful of intersex people and would rather they not be erased. They suffer a lot of collateral damage from the "trans discourse".

slumdev 5y ago
There are only two human sexes. Genetic diseases that occur at a rate of 0.018% don't constitute additional categories.
- thebooktocome 5y ago
  I hear you saying: "Intersex people don't exist. Intersex people do exist." You might want to reflect on that self-contradiction.
  - slumdev 5y ago
    1. Human beings have two arms and two legs. 2. Thalidomide caused some humans to develop without all four complete limbs. These people are still humans. Statements 1 and 2 aren't contradictory. 3. There are two human sexes. 4. Genetic anomalies cause some humans to develop without a complete set of the primary and secondary sexual characteristics of either sex. These people are still humans. Statements 3 and 4 aren't contradictory.
  - Chris2048 5y ago
    "there are only 2 human genders" does not contradict "Intersex people don't exist" because such a condition doesn't constitute a biological gender. If it did, it wouldn't be called a "disorder". That said, we can just agree on what words mean, if if there are discrepancies, we can just label alternate definitions, to ensure they remain consistent. Which still brings us to the question: why aren't men allowed in women's bathrooms? If it's just the physical possession of a penis, this would still disqualify many trans-women.
- whatshisface 5y ago
  A category's a category if distinct items are in it. I think you are going for a more specific word than "a category." Perhaps, "social role that exists in the experience of most people?" That sounds like a good description of the two genders thing.
  - slumdev 5y ago
    There are two human sexes. Carrying a child in a uterus is not a social construct.
    - whatshisface 5y ago
      I think you gave a great example of how it's fuzzy at the boundaries, because infertile women are still women. I'm not saying this whole gender thing is made up, any alien would notice gender if they landed in central park, just that you can't get too metaphysical about it.
      - slumdev 5y ago
        Your example illustrates the point perfectly, though. Infertility in someone who is of childbearing age is a problem. A bug, not a feature. Intersex conditions are similar. They don't diminish that person's dignity as a human, but the condition is unfortunate and anomalous.
Chris2048 5y ago
> I know a handful of intersex people How did you come to know a handful of intersex people? Since this is unlikely to happen at random, any non-random grouping process might produce a bias that would relevant provide context to anything you said on their behalf.
- thebooktocome 5y ago
  You're really saying that no one who knows more than one intersex person is allowed to comment? Okay, I'll shut up. Have a nice day.
  - Chris2048 5y ago
    You're the one who used personal knowledge of intersex people a part of your argument, and authority on the topic - am I not allowed to interrogate that?
    - dang 5y ago
      Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27583439 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27583439.
      - Chris2048 5y ago
        There are no complaints about downvoting in this comment. What about this comment do you believe breaks the guidelines. I'm not sure how I could of asked the original question any differently: If someone claimed to know several albinos, and in their experience found them to all wear purple sweaters - it might might be worth finding out that they met them at the purple-sweater-albinos meetup. If someone knows a statistically unlikely group, they are unlikely to have been selected at random, so they are not necessarily a representative sample. That's why when you put forward some element in an argument, it should be possible to interrogate it. I didn't express any doubt that they knew intersex people, nor did I say their argument invalid - in fact I explicitly said that it might produce a bias.
  - 5y ago
leephillips 5y ago
The existence of intersex people does not negate the fact that only two sexes exist. Every intersex person is either male or female. Intersex is an atypical development of male or female sexual characteristics, and males and females have distinct intersex conditions, specific to their sexes. A man with what appears to be female external anatomy is a man, although in some cases that might not be discovered until adulthood.