6 ms·

Urban sprawl catering to the car lifestyle is the mistake. Most major cities that cater exclusively for cars are hellscapes covered in concrete and parking lots

by foxes 5y ago

Urban sprawl catering to the car lifestyle is the mistake. Most major cities that cater exclusively for cars are hellscapes covered in concrete and parking lots. I truly despise car traffic. Cities should be higher density, feature plenty of parkland so you can ride and walk through it, plus end of trip facilities for those bikes, obviously you need some roads for necessary services, but then have an abundance of public transport.

h4kor 5y ago
https://unevenearth.org/2018/08/the-social-ideology-of-the-motorcar/ https://unevenearth.org/2018/08/the-social-ideology-of-the-m...
atoav 5y ago
As someone who wiped the black dust off his balkony once a week I can tell you the absolute worst I had from living at a major road was the noise. When I first slept in my new flat it felt like someone lifted a heavy rock off my chest. I hadn't realized just how much the noise affected me. And I am not a noise sensitive person, in fact Metal and Noise music are kinda a thing I like. I think cities first and foremost should look out for the people wjo actually live there. Widening roads is the polar opposite of that.
- leoedin 5y ago
  I spent a couple of years living next to a main road. Not a highway, but one of the main routes into London from the south east. The noise was terrible. It wasn't even that the road was particularly constantly busy, but because it was the "main" road there was always vehicles. And motorbikes. Motorbikes were the worst, by far. Being woken suddenly every hour by someone on a motorbike revving their engine wears down on you night by night.
  - black_puppydog 5y ago
    Living in a very walkable old-inner-city I have essentially zero cars going through the neighbourhood, especially at night. But motorbike and scooters (!) are able to go through and a single scooter is easily able to eradicate cumulative hours of sleep throughout the neighbourhood within seconds. How these things have not been regulated out of existence by now is beyond me. The only silver lining is that I see more and more electric scooters. As they're starting to make economic sense I hope that the others will phase out, but the old ones will have to be removed by force (of law) or they'll keep ruining people's health (air & sleep) for decades...
    - leoedin 5y ago
      I think once electric motorbikes are a bit more viable, internal combustion ones should be banned. I'm sure there's plenty of responsible bike owners, but the bad eggs are _really_ bad. They're so incredibly antisocial in urban environments (and rural too - at my parents house in the mountains you can hear them racing up and down the roads a couple of miles away).
      - black_puppydog 5y ago
        Yeah, I remember a midnight trip to the fort towering over Grenoble. You can see the whole town from 1.1km above and a few km away. Everything was so calm and quiet from up there... until WRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! a scooter cut through the night. :|
- rob74 5y ago
  My current situation: I live in an apartment ~30 km away from the next big city (where I used to commute to by train before Covid enabled me to have home office). The house is in a nice cul-de-sac, and when you look out of most of the windows you can't even see a car most of the time (Ok, they're in the underground parking garage between the houses, but out of sight). However, at night, when it's nice and quiet, you can still distinctly hear the buzz of cars, trucks, motorbikes etc. on the freeway which is ~2 km away. Shows that you can't really escape the effects of automobile traffic, unless you want to live somewhere so secluded that you need to use the car to do anything, and add to the problem...
- dkdbejwi383 5y ago
  I have just moved from the main road in my neighbourhood (not a major road for the city, but busy for the area), where I was on the ground floor with a bus stop outside and apartment building entrances across the road and next door. Now, I'm on the top (5) floor, on a much quieter side road, and the different is astounding. I can actually sleep with the window open in hot weather.
veltas 5y ago
What about the disabled and elderly?
- namelessone 5y ago
  What about them?
- dkdbejwi383 5y ago
  "pedestrian-first" might be better described as "car-last". "Pedestrianised" areas are usually better for folk with mobility scooters, wheelchairs, mothers with pushchairs and bairns and that. Less private vehicles with one occupant taking up space means there is more bandwidth for busses and trams etc that can transport many people (and which have ramps for pushchairs, wheelchairs, etc).
  - veltas 5y ago
    A mobility scooter works if you live close or can use transport that uses that. And also if you want one or have access to one, lots of e.g. elderly people don't use them. They're limited to where they can drive and walk an increasingly short distance.
    - dkdbejwi383 5y ago
      Exactly, removing some private cars from the roads and private car infrastructure (car parks, parking bays, over-engineered roads) means more bandwidth for public transport which those with mobility scooters, prams, etc, can use.
      - veltas 5y ago
        Public transport is less accessible to people who can drive and walk very short distances.
        detritus 5y ago
        > Public transport is less accessible to people who can drive and walk very short distances. Perhaps I'm just stupid, but I can't parse the intent behind this response - what do you mean, exactly?

by foxes 5y ago

h4kor 5y ago

https://unevenearth.org/2018/08/the-social-ideology-of-the-motorcar/ https://unevenearth.org/2018/08/the-social-ideology-of-the-m...

atoav 5y ago

As someone who wiped the black dust off his balkony once a week I can tell you the absolute worst I had from living at a major road was the noise. When I first slept in my new flat it felt like someone lifted a heavy rock off my chest. I hadn't realized just how much the noise affected me. And I am not a noise sensitive person, in fact Metal and Noise music are kinda a thing I like. I think cities first and foremost should look out for the people wjo actually live there. Widening roads is the polar opposite of that.

leoedin 5y ago
I spent a couple of years living next to a main road. Not a highway, but one of the main routes into London from the south east. The noise was terrible. It wasn't even that the road was particularly constantly busy, but because it was the "main" road there was always vehicles. And motorbikes. Motorbikes were the worst, by far. Being woken suddenly every hour by someone on a motorbike revving their engine wears down on you night by night.
- black_puppydog 5y ago
  Living in a very walkable old-inner-city I have essentially zero cars going through the neighbourhood, especially at night. But motorbike and scooters (!) are able to go through and a single scooter is easily able to eradicate cumulative hours of sleep throughout the neighbourhood within seconds. How these things have not been regulated out of existence by now is beyond me. The only silver lining is that I see more and more electric scooters. As they're starting to make economic sense I hope that the others will phase out, but the old ones will have to be removed by force (of law) or they'll keep ruining people's health (air & sleep) for decades...
  - leoedin 5y ago
    I think once electric motorbikes are a bit more viable, internal combustion ones should be banned. I'm sure there's plenty of responsible bike owners, but the bad eggs are _really_ bad. They're so incredibly antisocial in urban environments (and rural too - at my parents house in the mountains you can hear them racing up and down the roads a couple of miles away).
    - black_puppydog 5y ago
      Yeah, I remember a midnight trip to the fort towering over Grenoble. You can see the whole town from 1.1km above and a few km away. Everything was so calm and quiet from up there... until WRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! a scooter cut through the night. :|
rob74 5y ago
My current situation: I live in an apartment ~30 km away from the next big city (where I used to commute to by train before Covid enabled me to have home office). The house is in a nice cul-de-sac, and when you look out of most of the windows you can't even see a car most of the time (Ok, they're in the underground parking garage between the houses, but out of sight). However, at night, when it's nice and quiet, you can still distinctly hear the buzz of cars, trucks, motorbikes etc. on the freeway which is ~2 km away. Shows that you can't really escape the effects of automobile traffic, unless you want to live somewhere so secluded that you need to use the car to do anything, and add to the problem...
dkdbejwi383 5y ago
I have just moved from the main road in my neighbourhood (not a major road for the city, but busy for the area), where I was on the ground floor with a bus stop outside and apartment building entrances across the road and next door. Now, I'm on the top (5) floor, on a much quieter side road, and the different is astounding. I can actually sleep with the window open in hot weather.

veltas 5y ago

What about the disabled and elderly?

namelessone 5y ago
What about them?
dkdbejwi383 5y ago
"pedestrian-first" might be better described as "car-last". "Pedestrianised" areas are usually better for folk with mobility scooters, wheelchairs, mothers with pushchairs and bairns and that. Less private vehicles with one occupant taking up space means there is more bandwidth for busses and trams etc that can transport many people (and which have ramps for pushchairs, wheelchairs, etc).
- veltas 5y ago
  A mobility scooter works if you live close or can use transport that uses that. And also if you want one or have access to one, lots of e.g. elderly people don't use them. They're limited to where they can drive and walk an increasingly short distance.
  - dkdbejwi383 5y ago
    Exactly, removing some private cars from the roads and private car infrastructure (car parks, parking bays, over-engineered roads) means more bandwidth for public transport which those with mobility scooters, prams, etc, can use.
    - veltas 5y ago
      Public transport is less accessible to people who can drive and walk very short distances.
      - detritus 5y ago
        > Public transport is less accessible to people who can drive and walk very short distances. Perhaps I'm just stupid, but I can't parse the intent behind this response - what do you mean, exactly?