4 ms·

In the US it really seems to be. I don’t even understand how my American friends can have kids - daycare is so expensive it makes more sense for one parent to j

by ant6n 5y ago

In the US it really seems to be. I don’t even understand how my American friends can have kids - daycare is so expensive it makes more sense for one parent to just stay home. In Canada, children are already much more affordable (esp. in Quebec). In Europe even more so. Once education, health care and day care are affordable (or free), children are not astronomically exoensive.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
If you compare the total fertility rates in Canada and Europe (~1.5), even with their pro natalist policies, America still has a higher fertility rate (~1.7) with abysmal support for parents. Likely attributable to families that opt out of paid formal child care, and Medicaid picks up the slack for those below middle class means.
- bordercases 5y ago
  American is more culturally diverse than Canada or Europe, I would see how the population breaks down in comparison.
- ant6n 5y ago
  I’d say the higher birth rates in US are due to religion and poverty. I also wonder how many immigrants continue living like in 2nd/3rd world country.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    The data concurs. When education goes up and religion goes down, fertility rates decline [1]. With regards to immigrants, children of immigrants rapidly align to fertility rates in their host country (at least in the US) [2]. [1] https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-020-8331-7 https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s... [2] https://cis.org/Report/Immigrant-and-NativeBorn-Fertility-2008-2018 https://cis.org/Report/Immigrant-and-NativeBorn-Fertility-20...
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    From our experience religion seems more important. There is some support for this observation: https://ifstudies.org/blog/how-income-affects-fertility https://ifstudies.org/blog/how-income-affects-fertility
    - toomuchtodo 5y ago
      It’s important to note the the Institute for Family Studies is pro marriage, pro family, and pro natalist. They advocate for traditional family models and more kids versus less. https://ifstudies.org/about/our-mission https://ifstudies.org/about/our-mission
xondono 5y ago
We pay for that dearly with lower wages and higher taxes.
xnyan 5y ago
It's not a good situation because they all require fairly large sacrifices, but there are alternatives to paid childcare. I work with a developer who's taking care of a 1 and 3-year-old during working hours because the pandemic caused his and many other daycares in in our area to close and there's simply no availability right now anywhere else. He's absent a lot during the day, but he makes it to all the important meetings and spends a significant amount of time working in the evening after his wife comes home from her job, so overall puts in the same amount of work as before. He has no life whatsoever outside of working and taking care of his kids, but no outside care involved. They are looking really hard for available daycare.
jjeaff 5y ago
It is definitely a heavy burden for low income families. But I don't think it is as expensive as some people make it out to be. I just checked at the daycare we send our kid to part time. And it looks like all day, 5 days a week, including breakfast, lunch, and afternoon snack is $875/mo. And I live in an expensive California suburb. Now, that will certainly get expensive if you have multiple kids under 5 all going at once. But it turned out to be a lot cheaper than I thought. I think some of the parents complaining are the same ones that are "applying" to these fancy, artisanal day cares that will teach your toddler how to do algebra in French.
- ant6n 5y ago
  900$ is rent for many ppl. It’s half a full time minimum wage job. In Quebec daycare is more like 150$/month, in Berlin 50$. That’s a huge difference. Btw, parental leave is another item that makes kids cheaper in social democratic countries. Thats paid leave on one hand (e.g. 12 months), or unpaid leave allowing you to return to your job after an extended absence (e.g. 36 months).

by ant6n 5y ago

toomuchtodo 5y ago

If you compare the total fertility rates in Canada and Europe (~1.5), even with their pro natalist policies, America still has a higher fertility rate (~1.7) with abysmal support for parents. Likely attributable to families that opt out of paid formal child care, and Medicaid picks up the slack for those below middle class means.

bordercases 5y ago
American is more culturally diverse than Canada or Europe, I would see how the population breaks down in comparison.
ant6n 5y ago
I’d say the higher birth rates in US are due to religion and poverty. I also wonder how many immigrants continue living like in 2nd/3rd world country.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  The data concurs. When education goes up and religion goes down, fertility rates decline [1]. With regards to immigrants, children of immigrants rapidly align to fertility rates in their host country (at least in the US) [2]. [1] https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-020-8331-7 https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s... [2] https://cis.org/Report/Immigrant-and-NativeBorn-Fertility-2008-2018 https://cis.org/Report/Immigrant-and-NativeBorn-Fertility-20...
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  From our experience religion seems more important. There is some support for this observation: https://ifstudies.org/blog/how-income-affects-fertility https://ifstudies.org/blog/how-income-affects-fertility
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    It’s important to note the the Institute for Family Studies is pro marriage, pro family, and pro natalist. They advocate for traditional family models and more kids versus less. https://ifstudies.org/about/our-mission https://ifstudies.org/about/our-mission

xondono 5y ago

We pay for that dearly with lower wages and higher taxes.

xnyan 5y ago

It's not a good situation because they all require fairly large sacrifices, but there are alternatives to paid childcare. I work with a developer who's taking care of a 1 and 3-year-old during working hours because the pandemic caused his and many other daycares in in our area to close and there's simply no availability right now anywhere else. He's absent a lot during the day, but he makes it to all the important meetings and spends a significant amount of time working in the evening after his wife comes home from her job, so overall puts in the same amount of work as before. He has no life whatsoever outside of working and taking care of his kids, but no outside care involved. They are looking really hard for available daycare.

jjeaff 5y ago

It is definitely a heavy burden for low income families. But I don't think it is as expensive as some people make it out to be. I just checked at the daycare we send our kid to part time. And it looks like all day, 5 days a week, including breakfast, lunch, and afternoon snack is $875/mo. And I live in an expensive California suburb. Now, that will certainly get expensive if you have multiple kids under 5 all going at once. But it turned out to be a lot cheaper than I thought. I think some of the parents complaining are the same ones that are "applying" to these fancy, artisanal day cares that will teach your toddler how to do algebra in French.

ant6n 5y ago
900$ is rent for many ppl. It’s half a full time minimum wage job. In Quebec daycare is more like 150$/month, in Berlin 50$. That’s a huge difference. Btw, parental leave is another item that makes kids cheaper in social democratic countries. Thats paid leave on one hand (e.g. 12 months), or unpaid leave allowing you to return to your job after an extended absence (e.g. 36 months).