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>We have an older, more proven tool to increase salaries and benefits: unions The union environment I am aware of classifies software developers as IT personne

>We have an older, more proven tool to increase salaries and benefits: unions The union environment I am aware of classifies software developers as IT personnel, and every new employee has to start at the same salary grade regardless of previous experience, which is under $60K. They do indeed negotiate salary increases, as much as 2% a year, and they are tenacious, winning retroactive increases even after going years without a contract. Why do you think this is at all relevant to the people on HN who say they are making $500K to $1M at a FAANG? Also, you gloss over (assuming you aren't totally unaware) that during the last "70 years", there have indeed been attempts to unionize highly paid engineers, and what do you think happens when they fail? Early retirement (i.e. blacklisting) for the instigators. Calling people stupid for buying into "demonization, propaganda, and exceptionalism" is not helpful, it's a cliché, and it doesn't need to be said again.

ViViDboarder 5y ago
> Why do you think this is at all relevant to the people on HN who say they are making $500K to $1M at a FAANG? The example you gave is, of course, not relevant. What you describe is not the model for all unions at all. > Calling people stupid for buying into "demonization, propaganda, and exceptionalism" is not helpful, it's a cliché, and it doesn't need to be said again. Nobody said that…
meh99 5y ago
So we need to disrupt unions unaware of inflation. Engineers also could collectively tank the economy; wfh makes a strike a matter of not opening a laptop. Even just the serious threat would put aristocrats on notice. Look what WSB has done to Wall Street with GME. The last generation has no information advantage. Just a political one. It can be taken away with little to no violence. I mean for one they’re a gerontocracy. Go forth. Disrupt.
- pjc50 5y ago
  > Look what WSB has done to Wall Street with GME. .. nothing? Well, it's generated a lot of press, but there's no evidence of structural changes. At worst they've managed to make one firm lose money on a trade. We're a long way off a final accounting of how much GME meme investors gained and lost.
  - meh99 5y ago
    I wasn’t using it as an example of success, but of commitment to collective goals. Here we are discussing the supposed leverage engineers have, but frankly, in 25 years working in circuit board design and software, engineers are some of the biggest snowflakes who fight over text editors, and libraries that help us produce more effectively for the aristocrats. Meanwhile, a community of spreadsheet fanatics are showing solidarity. Highlighting how little leverage engineers really have despite all their big talk and brains. They’re largely just cattle for the status quo. SOPA blackouts changed things. Teacher strikes change things. So long as the masses are happy to be apathetic their is no motivation by aristocrats to do better by their subjects. Off with their heads (figuratively speaking). I would shed no tears if billionaires were suddenly multi-millionaires of it means other families still have those they would otherwise lose to preventable illness. So much for gritty and exceptional. Kowtowed and low affect is the power engineers have.
mycall 5y ago
The union I joined started me at step 3, not step 1 for my grade, because of my extensive background as I negotiated salary to equal my previous FAANG salary. Union software engineers do have some power there.

ViViDboarder 5y ago

> Why do you think this is at all relevant to the people on HN who say they are making $500K to $1M at a FAANG? The example you gave is, of course, not relevant. What you describe is not the model for all unions at all. > Calling people stupid for buying into "demonization, propaganda, and exceptionalism" is not helpful, it's a cliché, and it doesn't need to be said again. Nobody said that…

meh99 5y ago

So we need to disrupt unions unaware of inflation. Engineers also could collectively tank the economy; wfh makes a strike a matter of not opening a laptop. Even just the serious threat would put aristocrats on notice. Look what WSB has done to Wall Street with GME. The last generation has no information advantage. Just a political one. It can be taken away with little to no violence. I mean for one they’re a gerontocracy. Go forth. Disrupt.

pjc50 5y ago
> Look what WSB has done to Wall Street with GME. .. nothing? Well, it's generated a lot of press, but there's no evidence of structural changes. At worst they've managed to make one firm lose money on a trade. We're a long way off a final accounting of how much GME meme investors gained and lost.
- meh99 5y ago
  I wasn’t using it as an example of success, but of commitment to collective goals. Here we are discussing the supposed leverage engineers have, but frankly, in 25 years working in circuit board design and software, engineers are some of the biggest snowflakes who fight over text editors, and libraries that help us produce more effectively for the aristocrats. Meanwhile, a community of spreadsheet fanatics are showing solidarity. Highlighting how little leverage engineers really have despite all their big talk and brains. They’re largely just cattle for the status quo. SOPA blackouts changed things. Teacher strikes change things. So long as the masses are happy to be apathetic their is no motivation by aristocrats to do better by their subjects. Off with their heads (figuratively speaking). I would shed no tears if billionaires were suddenly multi-millionaires of it means other families still have those they would otherwise lose to preventable illness. So much for gritty and exceptional. Kowtowed and low affect is the power engineers have.

mycall 5y ago

The union I joined started me at step 3, not step 1 for my grade, because of my extensive background as I negotiated salary to equal my previous FAANG salary. Union software engineers do have some power there.