4 ms·

“640k ought to be enough for anybody.” -possibly Bill Gates.

by jdkee 5y ago

ncmncm 5y ago
... in a joke nobody got at the time, and few even much later.
- eesmith 5y ago
  Could you explain? Quoting https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/09/08/640k-enough/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/09/08/640k-enough/ : > "Gates has denied the quotation and the evidence is not compelling" and > "the comments by Nancy Andrews and Jerry Pournelle showed that a common mindset of the period was compatible with informal hyperbolic remarks of this type. The 1989 speech by Gates presented a more sophisticated analysis of the growth of computing power and memory." so I interpret the current retelling of the joke as putting words into Gates' mouth to try and knock him down a notch, and the original 1985 editorial by James E. Fawcette more along the lines of truthiness ("the belief or assertion that a particular statement is true based on the intuition or perceptions of some individual or individuals, without regard to evidence, logic"). Note how the editorial starts "Legend has it".
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    Hiya Doc -- Anybody who had done any programming on mainframes, which both Gates and Allen did before the IBM or Apple computers came out, would only ever say such a thing ironically. Memory has always been the limiting factor on what you could program. An essential base skill for any programmer was minimizing memory use so you would not run out later in the project. So, when the PC came out, 640k was a lot for an 8-bit micro, but the 8088 was nominally 16-bit and equipped to manage a megabyte without any hardware fiddling, and its contemporary, the 68000, could already address more.
    - eesmith 5y ago
      Sure [0], but who said it, when, and what's the joke? There's no evidence that Gates said it, and he denies saying it. I gave citations for how several people at the time said it unironically. Nancy Andrews: "When the IBM PC-1 was introduced in 1981, it came equipped with 64K of memory. Those of us who upgraded our systems to 128K thought we had all the memory we’d ever need." Jerry Pournelle: "My first microcomputer had 12K of memory. When I expanded to a full 64K, I thought I had all the memory I’d ever need. Hah. I know better now." And the earliest reference to that supposed quote was an editorial with many examples of how software wasn't prepared for larger memory use - hardly an example of "a joke nobody got at the time". As I don't have a Dr. or Phd but I do have a MS, you shouldn't call me "Doc". The appropriate academic title is "Master", though that seems excessive for HN. [0] I started with microcomputers in '83 and did some mainframe programming in FORTRAN so I'm aware of the context.
      - ncmncm 5y ago
        E. E. "Doc" Smith was a donut doctor. Nancy and Jerry were not programmers. We have no indication who said it, or when, but clearly somebody did. If that somebody was a programmer, they could only ever have said it ironically. It would not be surprising for somebody who was not a programmer to miss the joke. If you get a job as an assistant at the airport and somebody asks you to fetch a bucket of prop wash and a hundred yards of flight line, don't. If you are told to ask somebody for a penny long stand, be prepared for a long wait (or just take the afternoon off).
        eesmith 5y ago
        Indeed! Most people don't read ancient SF and I didn't expect that joke. Well played! > We have no indication who said it Kirk in ToS never said "Beam me up, Scotty", but that's the quote everyone knows. Truthiness trumps truth. It appears Gates' and Microsoft's views at the time were something like what he said in 1989: "That is, a move from 64k to 640k felt like something that would last a great deal of time." Note that "a great deal of time" ruins what you think is a sarcastic joke. That qualifier is also exactly the sort of nuance that's worn off in retelling, as dropping it makes the retelling more interesting. Truthiness trumps truth. We know that the earliest form of that attributed quote is in an Infoworld article by editorial director James E. Fawcette, dated April 29, 1985 as "When we set the upper limit of PC-DOS at 640K, we thought nobody would ever need that much memory. — William Gates, chairman of Microsoft" It has no citation, no additional context, and several other parts of the piece ("Legend has it" and "was reported") strongly suggest it was not written with historical accuracy foremost in mind. Instead, I interpret it as using these examples as parables to make the editorial argument more vivid. Truthiness trumps truth. Thing is, I agree it's a joke. I think the joke was "Look those derpy engineers. They're so close-minded! Don't they know that we always want more RAM, more disk space, and more of everything?!" But that raw joke questions engineering tradeoffs and decisions, and as you rightly point out, journalists rarely have that expertise. So the joke is made of Jobs and Gates, because it's always fun to take CEO's down a notch. Even if it wasn't true. Truthiness trumps truth.

“640k ought to be enough for anybody.” -possibly Bill Gates.

by jdkee 5y ago

“640k ought to be enough for anybody.” -possibly Bill Gates.

ncmncm 5y ago

... in a joke nobody got at the time, and few even much later.

eesmith 5y ago
Could you explain? Quoting https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/09/08/640k-enough/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/09/08/640k-enough/ : > "Gates has denied the quotation and the evidence is not compelling" and > "the comments by Nancy Andrews and Jerry Pournelle showed that a common mindset of the period was compatible with informal hyperbolic remarks of this type. The 1989 speech by Gates presented a more sophisticated analysis of the growth of computing power and memory." so I interpret the current retelling of the joke as putting words into Gates' mouth to try and knock him down a notch, and the original 1985 editorial by James E. Fawcette more along the lines of truthiness ("the belief or assertion that a particular statement is true based on the intuition or perceptions of some individual or individuals, without regard to evidence, logic"). Note how the editorial starts "Legend has it".
- ncmncm 5y ago
  Hiya Doc -- Anybody who had done any programming on mainframes, which both Gates and Allen did before the IBM or Apple computers came out, would only ever say such a thing ironically. Memory has always been the limiting factor on what you could program. An essential base skill for any programmer was minimizing memory use so you would not run out later in the project. So, when the PC came out, 640k was a lot for an 8-bit micro, but the 8088 was nominally 16-bit and equipped to manage a megabyte without any hardware fiddling, and its contemporary, the 68000, could already address more.
  - eesmith 5y ago
    Sure [0], but who said it, when, and what's the joke? There's no evidence that Gates said it, and he denies saying it. I gave citations for how several people at the time said it unironically. Nancy Andrews: "When the IBM PC-1 was introduced in 1981, it came equipped with 64K of memory. Those of us who upgraded our systems to 128K thought we had all the memory we’d ever need." Jerry Pournelle: "My first microcomputer had 12K of memory. When I expanded to a full 64K, I thought I had all the memory I’d ever need. Hah. I know better now." And the earliest reference to that supposed quote was an editorial with many examples of how software wasn't prepared for larger memory use - hardly an example of "a joke nobody got at the time". As I don't have a Dr. or Phd but I do have a MS, you shouldn't call me "Doc". The appropriate academic title is "Master", though that seems excessive for HN. [0] I started with microcomputers in '83 and did some mainframe programming in FORTRAN so I'm aware of the context.
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      E. E. "Doc" Smith was a donut doctor. Nancy and Jerry were not programmers. We have no indication who said it, or when, but clearly somebody did. If that somebody was a programmer, they could only ever have said it ironically. It would not be surprising for somebody who was not a programmer to miss the joke. If you get a job as an assistant at the airport and somebody asks you to fetch a bucket of prop wash and a hundred yards of flight line, don't. If you are told to ask somebody for a penny long stand, be prepared for a long wait (or just take the afternoon off).
      - eesmith 5y ago
        Indeed! Most people don't read ancient SF and I didn't expect that joke. Well played! > We have no indication who said it Kirk in ToS never said "Beam me up, Scotty", but that's the quote everyone knows. Truthiness trumps truth. It appears Gates' and Microsoft's views at the time were something like what he said in 1989: "That is, a move from 64k to 640k felt like something that would last a great deal of time." Note that "a great deal of time" ruins what you think is a sarcastic joke. That qualifier is also exactly the sort of nuance that's worn off in retelling, as dropping it makes the retelling more interesting. Truthiness trumps truth. We know that the earliest form of that attributed quote is in an Infoworld article by editorial director James E. Fawcette, dated April 29, 1985 as "When we set the upper limit of PC-DOS at 640K, we thought nobody would ever need that much memory. — William Gates, chairman of Microsoft" It has no citation, no additional context, and several other parts of the piece ("Legend has it" and "was reported") strongly suggest it was not written with historical accuracy foremost in mind. Instead, I interpret it as using these examples as parables to make the editorial argument more vivid. Truthiness trumps truth. Thing is, I agree it's a joke. I think the joke was "Look those derpy engineers. They're so close-minded! Don't they know that we always want more RAM, more disk space, and more of everything?!" But that raw joke questions engineering tradeoffs and decisions, and as you rightly point out, journalists rarely have that expertise. So the joke is made of Jobs and Gates, because it's always fun to take CEO's down a notch. Even if it wasn't true. Truthiness trumps truth.