4 ms·

I agree with your premise and doubt that adding NFTs into the mix will do anything to prevent counterfeits. I don’t buy fancy handbags, but I have read that co

by reidjs 5y ago

I agree with your premise and doubt that adding NFTs into the mix will do anything to prevent counterfeits. I don’t buy fancy handbags, but I have read that counterfeits are often made of higher quality material than luxury brands. So, the fool pays $$$ for a quality knockoff and an NFT. Maybe they realize it 5 years from now when they try to sell the bag. Hopefully at that point they will learn that there’s no tangible way to link physical objects to a blockchain. One optimistic consequence of this may be a distancing between materialism and value. After all, The knockoff is just as good or better than the authentic. Let’s tie value to experience rather than objects. If you really must use NFTs and blockchains, then use them for concert/event tickets, governance systems, game collectibles , decentralized gambling’s/prediction markets, p2p and cross border value exchange, etc.

JadeNB 5y ago
> After all, The knockoff is just as good or better than the authentic. I think this may be over optimistic—the fact that counterfeits can be same quality doesn't mean they always, or even often, are. There are product categories where the difference is not apparent even to trained casual inspection, but there are real quality or even safety sacrifices.
- slipframe 5y ago
  I think the kind of product in question has a big role. A handbag should be relatively easy to inspect; look at the seams and look at the material. If both are robust and you like the way the bag looks, then it's a good bag regardless of authenticity. But on the other hand, what about something like wristwatches? To inspect all the parts you would need to tear it apart, which just isn't feasible before purchase [if at all.]
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    All I know about wristwatches is you can tell a faux Rolex from a real one by the faux sweep hands move in increments, while the real one moves smoothly. I couldn't care less, and wear a cheap Timex because I regularly ruin them (usually by scraping).
    - ProjectArcturis 5y ago
      That's what everyone "knows" about fake Rolexes, and it isn't true and hasn't been for a long time. 10 years ago I bought a Rolex for $15 in China that had a smooth sweep.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  I think he is talking about a large category of product where you 'pay for the brand', the whole point is being outrageously expensive and exclusive. Thing diamons and designer handbags.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  You don't generally have to trust. If you do your research you can buy a counterfeit of the highest quality which is often better than the product. There are counterfeits that are of low quality, with a suitably even lower price, but by doing some research you can often tell. This is a big problem for sneakers, counterfeits are often literally impossible for anyone to distinguish. In my high school a kid would be selling knock offs of hyped shoes and brought them to official stores or specialized resellers and got them appraised as authentic, repeatedly. Now I hear through the grapevine that they have to use things like the rigidity of the cardboard in the box they came in with to try and figure out fakes, because the shoe itself is just too close to tell. Ultimately there's nothing magic to the original. The products are generally much cheaper to make than they are sold, so there is no reason why someone couldn't make a version with better materials at the same cost. It's a question of imaginary property and signaling more than anything.
  - JadeNB 5y ago
    Certainly there's likely to be no reason that knock-offs can't be the same quality as, or better than, the original for much less price—but making the knock-offs appear to be the same quality while actually being lower quality is even cheaper still. As a counterfeiter, why wouldn't you make the cheaper product if no-one can tell the difference? I am thinking here particularly of counterfeit chargers, which are designed to mimic the originals to comical extremes—so that you essentially wouldn't know without tearing them apart—but which are missing crucial safeguards that mean that they are much more prone to catch fire. If, as ClumsyPilot suggests (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27573695 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27573695), you are thinking only of fashion items, then it's probably less of an issue.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      You don't because there is a very very competitive market for counterfeits of these products. For some shoes there might be five or six counterfeiters competing so they may distinguish themselves with higher quality and uphold a reputation that way. Then there is a whole community of people that evaluate which batches are of higher or lower quality. Personally I don't buy counterfeits at all, the hyped shoes nowadays are just reskins of old designs and aren't that comfortable or imo look that exceptional. Certainly, don't buy counterfeits that plug into mains though, unless you really really really know what you're doing.
- Clewza313 5y ago
  A street vendor in New York once tried to convince me to buy a Rolex with the pitch "It's got real Seiko parts inside!" In Bangkok, the fake watch dealers offer grades of product, giving you the option to pay more for a better fake.
- acomjean 5y ago
  I had a fake "Gucci" watch in the 90s that looked ok on the outside, but just picking it up you knew it wasn't the real deal. Someone gave me as a gag gift. Opening it showed the case was a good match, but the inside was just a generic battery powered quartz watch. kept good time though.
SergeAx 5y ago
I am visiting Turkey every year or two and every time I am going to local bazar to buy counterfeited clothing. They are more or less of the same quality (Turkey is a source of high quality cotton and linen) and really good fit because counterfeiters just cloning original articles piece-by-piece, seam-by-seam. Maybe buttons and zippers are of lower quality, but they are repairable, so I am okay with that. I think that paying hundreds and even thousands for industrially manufactured shirts, jeans and underwear just for its brand is universally stupid.

by reidjs 5y ago

JadeNB 5y ago

> After all, The knockoff is just as good or better than the authentic. I think this may be over optimistic—the fact that counterfeits can be same quality doesn't mean they always, or even often, are. There are product categories where the difference is not apparent even to trained casual inspection, but there are real quality or even safety sacrifices.

slipframe 5y ago
I think the kind of product in question has a big role. A handbag should be relatively easy to inspect; look at the seams and look at the material. If both are robust and you like the way the bag looks, then it's a good bag regardless of authenticity. But on the other hand, what about something like wristwatches? To inspect all the parts you would need to tear it apart, which just isn't feasible before purchase [if at all.]
- WalterBright 5y ago
  All I know about wristwatches is you can tell a faux Rolex from a real one by the faux sweep hands move in increments, while the real one moves smoothly. I couldn't care less, and wear a cheap Timex because I regularly ruin them (usually by scraping).
  - ProjectArcturis 5y ago
    That's what everyone "knows" about fake Rolexes, and it isn't true and hasn't been for a long time. 10 years ago I bought a Rolex for $15 in China that had a smooth sweep.
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
I think he is talking about a large category of product where you 'pay for the brand', the whole point is being outrageously expensive and exclusive. Thing diamons and designer handbags.
sudosysgen 5y ago
You don't generally have to trust. If you do your research you can buy a counterfeit of the highest quality which is often better than the product. There are counterfeits that are of low quality, with a suitably even lower price, but by doing some research you can often tell. This is a big problem for sneakers, counterfeits are often literally impossible for anyone to distinguish. In my high school a kid would be selling knock offs of hyped shoes and brought them to official stores or specialized resellers and got them appraised as authentic, repeatedly. Now I hear through the grapevine that they have to use things like the rigidity of the cardboard in the box they came in with to try and figure out fakes, because the shoe itself is just too close to tell. Ultimately there's nothing magic to the original. The products are generally much cheaper to make than they are sold, so there is no reason why someone couldn't make a version with better materials at the same cost. It's a question of imaginary property and signaling more than anything.
- JadeNB 5y ago
  Certainly there's likely to be no reason that knock-offs can't be the same quality as, or better than, the original for much less price—but making the knock-offs appear to be the same quality while actually being lower quality is even cheaper still. As a counterfeiter, why wouldn't you make the cheaper product if no-one can tell the difference? I am thinking here particularly of counterfeit chargers, which are designed to mimic the originals to comical extremes—so that you essentially wouldn't know without tearing them apart—but which are missing crucial safeguards that mean that they are much more prone to catch fire. If, as ClumsyPilot suggests (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27573695 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27573695), you are thinking only of fashion items, then it's probably less of an issue.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    You don't because there is a very very competitive market for counterfeits of these products. For some shoes there might be five or six counterfeiters competing so they may distinguish themselves with higher quality and uphold a reputation that way. Then there is a whole community of people that evaluate which batches are of higher or lower quality. Personally I don't buy counterfeits at all, the hyped shoes nowadays are just reskins of old designs and aren't that comfortable or imo look that exceptional. Certainly, don't buy counterfeits that plug into mains though, unless you really really really know what you're doing.
Clewza313 5y ago
A street vendor in New York once tried to convince me to buy a Rolex with the pitch "It's got real Seiko parts inside!" In Bangkok, the fake watch dealers offer grades of product, giving you the option to pay more for a better fake.
acomjean 5y ago
I had a fake "Gucci" watch in the 90s that looked ok on the outside, but just picking it up you knew it wasn't the real deal. Someone gave me as a gag gift. Opening it showed the case was a good match, but the inside was just a generic battery powered quartz watch. kept good time though.

SergeAx 5y ago

I am visiting Turkey every year or two and every time I am going to local bazar to buy counterfeited clothing. They are more or less of the same quality (Turkey is a source of high quality cotton and linen) and really good fit because counterfeiters just cloning original articles piece-by-piece, seam-by-seam. Maybe buttons and zippers are of lower quality, but they are repairable, so I am okay with that. I think that paying hundreds and even thousands for industrially manufactured shirts, jeans and underwear just for its brand is universally stupid.