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> I've worked 4 days a week (for 20% less pay) for years now. It's without a question the biggest positive change in standard of living and life quality I could

> I've worked 4 days a week (for 20% less pay) for years now. It's without a question the biggest positive change in standard of living and life quality I could buy with this money I agree with the benefits of a 4 day workweek but personally going 80% will have disproportionately higher marginal costs. This is one of the occasions where a collective solution (4-day workweeks for all) outperforms individual initiatives. First, if some of the total compensation is through stocks, usually they reduce both the vesting amount and vesting frequency by 20%, which could translate to some 25% cut in total comp. New stock grants are also prorated, just as your bonus will be prorated by that amount. You vacation days are also reduced by 20%, a typical figure would amount to being deprived of another week of paid time off. In other words, you could have used one day of that paid time off every week to simulate your 80% work, but now you take a pay cut for it. The cost of work side of things are not linear either. For example certain fixed costs like weekly meetings do not reduce by 20%, which means your available heads down work time reduces more than 20%. Unless you do overtime to compensate for that (which beats the purpose of part time), that means you also get an additional productivity hit. Without any WFH arrangement, cost of being housed in a commute distance of work is also constant. If you don't move to a 20% cheaper place while going part time, your rent to paycheck ratio increases, which matters especially for HCOL areas because it hits your disposable income rate disproportionately. The cost function of going to 80% personally is horribly non-linear. Pushing for a 4-day workweek for all avoids that.

GordonS 5y ago
> First, if some of the total compensation is through stocks, usually they reduce both the vesting amount and vesting frequency Compensation through stocks applies to a tiny proportion of workers in the US, and a miniscule proportion elsewhere.
- acituan 5y ago
  > Compensation through stocks applies to a tiny proportion of workers in the US, and a miniscule proportion elsewhere. And to a substantial portion of the tech workers in the Bay Area.
  - GordonS 5y ago
    Right, but I thought we were discussing a broad cultural shift to a 4-day working week, rather than only for some chosen ones in SV :) As an aside, it would be interesting to know what proportion of HN users was actually based in SV; I imagine many times fewer than those who are not.
    - detaro 5y ago
      dang has said in the past that it appears to be around 10% (presumably based on IP locations?)
dv_dt 5y ago
On the vacation days, it also takes fewer vacations days to get a continuous week off with a 4 day regular schedule
codewiz 5y ago
> You vacation days are also reduced by 20%, a typical figure would amount to being deprived of another week of paid time off. When you need only 4 days of vacation to take one week off, 20 paid vacation days will let you go on vacation for 5 weeks per year, just like like a full-time employee with 25 vacation days. In fact, if your employer is flexible about which days you work, you could leave on a Friday and return next Monday (4 days) without using any vacation days.
- spacedcowboy 5y ago
  So my employer has a cap of 240 hours of vacation, and after (I think) 9 years of working there, caps the number of days of vacation to 21. So I accrue 6.5 hours of vacation every two weeks at this point. My intention (which I'll reach in October) is to get sufficiently close to that 240-hours cap that I will have to take off one day every fortnight to keep under it, for almost every fortnight in the year. My wife was offered a 9/80 schedule at her job, where she worked 10 hours per day for 9 days, and got the 2nd Friday off. I'm looking forward to my own version, except it'll only be the 8-hour nominal work day...
- acituan 5y ago
  > When you need only 4 days of vacation to take one week off, 20 paid vacation days will let you go on vacation for 5 weeks per year, just like like a full-time employee with 25 vacation days. Sure, but it is contingent on using your vacation allotments at full week increments, which is not the only way vacation days are used. In your hypothetical scenario, since we're in the realm of managerial approvals, you could as well ask for a 1 month unpaid time off which amounts to a nominal %8 pay cut for 20 some days (which is actually less because stock vesting tend not to stop), whereas a 20% time cut only gets you 45 extra non-workdays with more than 20% paycut due to the non-linearities I explained above. Marginal cost of non-workdays are much higher in the latter scenario. > In fact, if your employer is flexible about which days you work, you could leave on a Friday and return next Monday (4 days) without using any vacation days. If your employer is flexible you could work 5 days for 4 weeks and take the next week off without vacation days too. It runs through every person's own objective function for sure. I am not saying costs can never outweigh the benefits, but I am trying to draw attention to the cost function which is not usually as well thought through.

GordonS 5y ago

> First, if some of the total compensation is through stocks, usually they reduce both the vesting amount and vesting frequency Compensation through stocks applies to a tiny proportion of workers in the US, and a miniscule proportion elsewhere.

acituan 5y ago
> Compensation through stocks applies to a tiny proportion of workers in the US, and a miniscule proportion elsewhere. And to a substantial portion of the tech workers in the Bay Area.
- GordonS 5y ago
  Right, but I thought we were discussing a broad cultural shift to a 4-day working week, rather than only for some chosen ones in SV :) As an aside, it would be interesting to know what proportion of HN users was actually based in SV; I imagine many times fewer than those who are not.
  - detaro 5y ago
    dang has said in the past that it appears to be around 10% (presumably based on IP locations?)

dv_dt 5y ago

On the vacation days, it also takes fewer vacations days to get a continuous week off with a 4 day regular schedule

codewiz 5y ago

> You vacation days are also reduced by 20%, a typical figure would amount to being deprived of another week of paid time off. When you need only 4 days of vacation to take one week off, 20 paid vacation days will let you go on vacation for 5 weeks per year, just like like a full-time employee with 25 vacation days. In fact, if your employer is flexible about which days you work, you could leave on a Friday and return next Monday (4 days) without using any vacation days.

spacedcowboy 5y ago
So my employer has a cap of 240 hours of vacation, and after (I think) 9 years of working there, caps the number of days of vacation to 21. So I accrue 6.5 hours of vacation every two weeks at this point. My intention (which I'll reach in October) is to get sufficiently close to that 240-hours cap that I will have to take off one day every fortnight to keep under it, for almost every fortnight in the year. My wife was offered a 9/80 schedule at her job, where she worked 10 hours per day for 9 days, and got the 2nd Friday off. I'm looking forward to my own version, except it'll only be the 8-hour nominal work day...
acituan 5y ago
> When you need only 4 days of vacation to take one week off, 20 paid vacation days will let you go on vacation for 5 weeks per year, just like like a full-time employee with 25 vacation days. Sure, but it is contingent on using your vacation allotments at full week increments, which is not the only way vacation days are used. In your hypothetical scenario, since we're in the realm of managerial approvals, you could as well ask for a 1 month unpaid time off which amounts to a nominal %8 pay cut for 20 some days (which is actually less because stock vesting tend not to stop), whereas a 20% time cut only gets you 45 extra non-workdays with more than 20% paycut due to the non-linearities I explained above. Marginal cost of non-workdays are much higher in the latter scenario. > In fact, if your employer is flexible about which days you work, you could leave on a Friday and return next Monday (4 days) without using any vacation days. If your employer is flexible you could work 5 days for 4 weeks and take the next week off without vacation days too. It runs through every person's own objective function for sure. I am not saying costs can never outweigh the benefits, but I am trying to draw attention to the cost function which is not usually as well thought through.