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It’s a thing. The author was not unlucky. It’s actually a thing (I worked in AWS, I have heard this from several managers, some which actually had trouble strug

It’s a thing. The author was not unlucky. It’s actually a thing (I worked in AWS, I have heard this from several managers, some which actually had trouble struggling with how stupid the system is). You have a team of X engineers and you want to grow. You hire a couple more. The current engineers have 0 incentives to help the new ones. Most people don’t have the chops (technical or emotional) to go up against a whole team. Come review time, what do you think is going to happen? As a boss will you let go someone who’s been there for 5 years and knows the service inside out or the new guy who seems to be struggling. Not all people are jerks, and there are good pockets (but mostly the deck is stacked against you when you join). Also, IMHO Amazon is going to have a really hard time hiring people with the reputation they created for themselves.

Popegaf 5y ago
> Also, IMHO Amazon is going to have a really hard time hiring people with the reputation they created for themselves. The majority cares about money and convenience. If people really cared about reputation then Riot Games, Microsoft, Tesla, Facebook, that big ride sharing company whose name slipped my mind, Shell, and lots of other companies, would be struggling to hire.
- rantwasp 5y ago
  hmm. Do Microsoft or Tesla pay well? Last time I interviewed at M$ I had to turn down their offer because of how bad the comp was.
  - dralley 5y ago
    I don't know about Microsoft, but Tesla is well known for having terrible compensation.
    - decafninja 5y ago
      Does Tesla give out heavily subsidized (or even free) cars to employees? Had a friend who worked at Mercedes Benz corporate and he could pretty much pick any non-AMG car in rotating 6-month leases. The monthly lease payment for him to lease a SL550 (a six figure convertible) was about the same as leasing a Honda Civic. Seems other car companies do similar programs for their employees.
  - throwaway2757 5y ago
    Microsoft really only pays comparatively at each end of the spectrum, so for new grads out of college and people who have Wikipedia articles. For the majority of people in their career (the Seniors and Principals/Staffs) MS pays significantly worse than other FAANG-type companies, often being well under half in terms of stock compensation for example. The company is well aware of this as it's constantly brought up in all-hands (both within individual departments as well as at the all-company level), and they always respond with "we've done research and we believe we actually do pay comparatively in this market segment".
    - intricatedetail 5y ago
      > "we've done research and we believe we actually do pay comparatively in this market segment". Sounds like market fixing and likely illegal, however I can imagine poorly paid employee wouldn't be able to afford a lawsuit.
      - rantwasp 5y ago
        the 'poorly paid' employees can definitely afford a lawsuit. here's the thing though: if you know what the situation is and continue to work there who is to blame? also, most stories I've heard is that the sub-optimal comp comes bundled with pretty good WLB. So maybe if you were to double the number of hours worked and double the comp M$ would blow other BigTech out of the water. Maybe this is the play (half the money for half the effort) and everyone knows it.
        intricatedetail 5y ago
        Do you base affordability on what? The type of lawyer average employee can afford will be easily crushed by a top law firm with virtually unlimited funds. The fact that one can change job shouldn't enable companies to continue like this.
        rantwasp 5y ago
        my point was that the people know the deal they are getting. if they still work there they are okay with it. to play devil’s advocate (from a top lawyer firm): how can one force a private entity to pay a certain wage that is way over what the minimum wage is?
raincom 5y ago
>The current engineers have 0 incentives to help the new ones. Most people don’t have the chops (technical or emotional) to go up against a whole team. This is why companies want to hire rockstars who can be productive in a couple of months without being helped by colleagues. One can't get such rockstars just by leetcode. Maybe, these companies should pay $1M per annum for such rockstars.
- rantwasp 5y ago
  you know. being a rockstar is not a solo thing. It’s a team thing. Usually rockstars teams are born out of high functioning teams where everyone is making everyone better.

Popegaf 5y ago

> Also, IMHO Amazon is going to have a really hard time hiring people with the reputation they created for themselves. The majority cares about money and convenience. If people really cared about reputation then Riot Games, Microsoft, Tesla, Facebook, that big ride sharing company whose name slipped my mind, Shell, and lots of other companies, would be struggling to hire.

rantwasp 5y ago
hmm. Do Microsoft or Tesla pay well? Last time I interviewed at M$ I had to turn down their offer because of how bad the comp was.
- dralley 5y ago
  I don't know about Microsoft, but Tesla is well known for having terrible compensation.
  - decafninja 5y ago
    Does Tesla give out heavily subsidized (or even free) cars to employees? Had a friend who worked at Mercedes Benz corporate and he could pretty much pick any non-AMG car in rotating 6-month leases. The monthly lease payment for him to lease a SL550 (a six figure convertible) was about the same as leasing a Honda Civic. Seems other car companies do similar programs for their employees.
- throwaway2757 5y ago
  Microsoft really only pays comparatively at each end of the spectrum, so for new grads out of college and people who have Wikipedia articles. For the majority of people in their career (the Seniors and Principals/Staffs) MS pays significantly worse than other FAANG-type companies, often being well under half in terms of stock compensation for example. The company is well aware of this as it's constantly brought up in all-hands (both within individual departments as well as at the all-company level), and they always respond with "we've done research and we believe we actually do pay comparatively in this market segment".
  - intricatedetail 5y ago
    > "we've done research and we believe we actually do pay comparatively in this market segment". Sounds like market fixing and likely illegal, however I can imagine poorly paid employee wouldn't be able to afford a lawsuit.
    - rantwasp 5y ago
      the 'poorly paid' employees can definitely afford a lawsuit. here's the thing though: if you know what the situation is and continue to work there who is to blame? also, most stories I've heard is that the sub-optimal comp comes bundled with pretty good WLB. So maybe if you were to double the number of hours worked and double the comp M$ would blow other BigTech out of the water. Maybe this is the play (half the money for half the effort) and everyone knows it.
      - intricatedetail 5y ago
        Do you base affordability on what? The type of lawyer average employee can afford will be easily crushed by a top law firm with virtually unlimited funds. The fact that one can change job shouldn't enable companies to continue like this.
        rantwasp 5y ago
        my point was that the people know the deal they are getting. if they still work there they are okay with it. to play devil’s advocate (from a top lawyer firm): how can one force a private entity to pay a certain wage that is way over what the minimum wage is?

raincom 5y ago

>The current engineers have 0 incentives to help the new ones. Most people don’t have the chops (technical or emotional) to go up against a whole team. This is why companies want to hire rockstars who can be productive in a couple of months without being helped by colleagues. One can't get such rockstars just by leetcode. Maybe, these companies should pay $1M per annum for such rockstars.

rantwasp 5y ago
you know. being a rockstar is not a solo thing. It’s a team thing. Usually rockstars teams are born out of high functioning teams where everyone is making everyone better.