5 ms·

As someone not getting the vaccine. I'll explain my reasoning. At this point, the odds of getting COVID are small. And much better treatments are around the cor

As someone not getting the vaccine. I'll explain my reasoning. At this point, the odds of getting COVID are small. And much better treatments are around the corner. Thus a 1% mortality rate for the elderly, with multiple co-morbidities, will be even lower for someone my age should I get it at some point. Vaccines introduce a foreign substance 100% of the time into your body, sometimes have side effects. I won't even date girls that got the vaccine, until more is known about long term effects. I'm worried about possibility of birth defects should a pregnancy occur.

dntrkv 5y ago
> Vaccines introduce a foreign substance 100% of the time into your body So does the virus. And all of our data shows the virus is much, much worse.
- dukeofdoom 5y ago
  yes, but by taking the vaccine 100% chance of doing that. Virus, only if I get it.
  - MAGZine 5y ago
    You're weighing a real possibility against an unfounded one. P(Complications|Covid) has a calculatable probability. P(Complications|Vaccine) is not, because we don't even know if they exist. And further, we strongly suspect they don't. In other words, I think you're trading one hand for (at best) one in the bush.
    - krona 5y ago
      P(Complications|ChAdOx1) is definitely not zero, especially for people < 40 years of age.
    - sethammons 5y ago
      Two of my brothers-in-law were hospitalized after receiving the vaccine.
      - ohlookabird 5y ago
        For what?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
rubidium 5y ago
Appreciate the candor. Agree odds are low now of getting it. When you’re healthy you get the vaccine for others, not yourself. Studies so far show no difference in baby outcomes.
ch4s3 5y ago
> until more is known about long term effects I'm curious about this line of reasoning. We've been testing mRNA treatments for other diseases for about 25 years now. The approach was abandoned for gene therapy because the effects weren't long lasting. We have follow up data on people who participated in those studies, and to my knowledge there aren't any documented negative long term effects. We know what the vaccine encodes, a spike protein, which is produced for a few weeks and the the mRNA wears out and is cleaned up by the cells. The proteins also don't persist in the body for very long. The other ingredients in the vaccine aren't anything special. History also demonstrated that negative vaccine reactions typically happen quickly, and not years down the line. With all of that in mind, why would one be concerned with long term effects? Is there something I'm missing? Is the position one of maximalist caution? If so, are you applying that to other areas of your life?
- krona 5y ago
  The other ingredients in the vaccine aren't anything special. Polyethylene glycol, for one, has never been used before in an approved vaccine. It is thought to be the cause of some rare anaphylactic reactions. There are dozens of other compounds in the Pfizer vaccine; the reason for them being there and their effects are, for the most part, a trade secret.
  - ch4s3 5y ago
    It seems like the amount of PEG in the vaccine is two orders of magnitude than the levels in existing drugs[1]. [1] https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/suspicions-grow-nanoparticles-pfizer-s-covid-19-vaccine-trigger-rare-allergic-reactions https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/suspicions-grow-nano...
- dukeofdoom 5y ago
  Not caution. Willingness to accept death should it come. I'm part of the natural world, and viruses are a natural way that keep population in balance. All these vaccines are keeping more kindling for a bigger fire down humanity's timeline. I would probably reconsider if the odds where much worse than 1%.
b0sk 5y ago
> At this point, the odds of getting COVID are small. That's because the herd around you has been vaccinated. So you are OK with others getting vaccinated for your benefit but wouldn't do your part to benefit the herd. Awesome! Maybe your post is parody. Can't really tell.
- dukeofdoom 5y ago
  I never asked the herd to do anything, thus I am not in any way obliged to them morally. They did it for their own protection. I was willing to accept the 1% of dying, even if no one was vaccinated.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- brigandish 5y ago
  > So you are OK with others getting vaccinated for your benefit but wouldn't do your part to benefit the herd. Shouldn't they be okay with getting vaccinated? They did it for their own reasons, and that's a good thing, but they're not martyrs or saints.
MAGZine 5y ago
There ultimate treatment has arrived in the form of prevention. The urgency to develop covid specific therapeutics has dissipated for the same reason "your chance of getting it is lower." Though even that is highly dependent on where you live, who you interact with, if you travel, etc. Lots of vaccine skeptics tend to share views and group, which makes conditions ripe for mini-outbreaks. "Other people got the vaccine so I don't have to" is logic that looks sound on the surface but I think recent skepticism has shown that enough people all playing this card has the potential for disaster/devestation that is easily avoided. Anyhow, you should talk your physician about this stuff, who is an authority who can give you information and help diffuse worried in a meaningful way.
- dukeofdoom 5y ago
  With more information coming out, and now a significant probability that the Virus was created in the lab. I am not culpable for saving humanity from the actions of rouge governments. Blame them, not me.
gspr 5y ago
Kindly go to hell (or go live alone in the woods somewhere), you egoistical bastard.
- dukeofdoom 5y ago
  The most vulnerable are in two groups. 1) Obese and 2) the elderly with multiple co-morbidities. Group 1, is more morally culpable for their own gluttony then I am for not getting the vaccine. Society paid a high price to keep them around. Group 2, reducing chance of dying from one disease only increases the odds of dying from something else. Very likely that these people would have died from their other diseases and co-morbidities.
the-rc 5y ago
There's even greater herd immunity for measles and co., yet there are outbreaks among unvaccinated people all the time. Perhaps those odds are not that small. COVID-19 is probably never going to go away. And you worry about the long term side effects for the vaccine's one protein, but only focus on the treatment (and not the side effects) for the virus that has 29 of them and tries its best to multiply itself. Do you see how this line of reasoning doesn't seem to compute?

dntrkv 5y ago

> Vaccines introduce a foreign substance 100% of the time into your body So does the virus. And all of our data shows the virus is much, much worse.

dukeofdoom 5y ago
yes, but by taking the vaccine 100% chance of doing that. Virus, only if I get it.
- MAGZine 5y ago
  You're weighing a real possibility against an unfounded one. P(Complications|Covid) has a calculatable probability. P(Complications|Vaccine) is not, because we don't even know if they exist. And further, we strongly suspect they don't. In other words, I think you're trading one hand for (at best) one in the bush.
  - krona 5y ago
    P(Complications|ChAdOx1) is definitely not zero, especially for people < 40 years of age.
  - sethammons 5y ago
    Two of my brothers-in-law were hospitalized after receiving the vaccine.
    - ohlookabird 5y ago
      For what?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

rubidium 5y ago

Appreciate the candor. Agree odds are low now of getting it. When you’re healthy you get the vaccine for others, not yourself. Studies so far show no difference in baby outcomes.

ch4s3 5y ago

> until more is known about long term effects I'm curious about this line of reasoning. We've been testing mRNA treatments for other diseases for about 25 years now. The approach was abandoned for gene therapy because the effects weren't long lasting. We have follow up data on people who participated in those studies, and to my knowledge there aren't any documented negative long term effects. We know what the vaccine encodes, a spike protein, which is produced for a few weeks and the the mRNA wears out and is cleaned up by the cells. The proteins also don't persist in the body for very long. The other ingredients in the vaccine aren't anything special. History also demonstrated that negative vaccine reactions typically happen quickly, and not years down the line. With all of that in mind, why would one be concerned with long term effects? Is there something I'm missing? Is the position one of maximalist caution? If so, are you applying that to other areas of your life?

krona 5y ago
The other ingredients in the vaccine aren't anything special. Polyethylene glycol, for one, has never been used before in an approved vaccine. It is thought to be the cause of some rare anaphylactic reactions. There are dozens of other compounds in the Pfizer vaccine; the reason for them being there and their effects are, for the most part, a trade secret.
- ch4s3 5y ago
  It seems like the amount of PEG in the vaccine is two orders of magnitude than the levels in existing drugs[1]. [1] https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/suspicions-grow-nanoparticles-pfizer-s-covid-19-vaccine-trigger-rare-allergic-reactions https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/suspicions-grow-nano...
dukeofdoom 5y ago
Not caution. Willingness to accept death should it come. I'm part of the natural world, and viruses are a natural way that keep population in balance. All these vaccines are keeping more kindling for a bigger fire down humanity's timeline. I would probably reconsider if the odds where much worse than 1%.

b0sk 5y ago

> At this point, the odds of getting COVID are small. That's because the herd around you has been vaccinated. So you are OK with others getting vaccinated for your benefit but wouldn't do your part to benefit the herd. Awesome! Maybe your post is parody. Can't really tell.

dukeofdoom 5y ago
I never asked the herd to do anything, thus I am not in any way obliged to them morally. They did it for their own protection. I was willing to accept the 1% of dying, even if no one was vaccinated.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
brigandish 5y ago
> So you are OK with others getting vaccinated for your benefit but wouldn't do your part to benefit the herd. Shouldn't they be okay with getting vaccinated? They did it for their own reasons, and that's a good thing, but they're not martyrs or saints.

MAGZine 5y ago

There ultimate treatment has arrived in the form of prevention. The urgency to develop covid specific therapeutics has dissipated for the same reason "your chance of getting it is lower." Though even that is highly dependent on where you live, who you interact with, if you travel, etc. Lots of vaccine skeptics tend to share views and group, which makes conditions ripe for mini-outbreaks. "Other people got the vaccine so I don't have to" is logic that looks sound on the surface but I think recent skepticism has shown that enough people all playing this card has the potential for disaster/devestation that is easily avoided. Anyhow, you should talk your physician about this stuff, who is an authority who can give you information and help diffuse worried in a meaningful way.

dukeofdoom 5y ago
With more information coming out, and now a significant probability that the Virus was created in the lab. I am not culpable for saving humanity from the actions of rouge governments. Blame them, not me.

gspr 5y ago

Kindly go to hell (or go live alone in the woods somewhere), you egoistical bastard.

dukeofdoom 5y ago
The most vulnerable are in two groups. 1) Obese and 2) the elderly with multiple co-morbidities. Group 1, is more morally culpable for their own gluttony then I am for not getting the vaccine. Society paid a high price to keep them around. Group 2, reducing chance of dying from one disease only increases the odds of dying from something else. Very likely that these people would have died from their other diseases and co-morbidities.

the-rc 5y ago

There's even greater herd immunity for measles and co., yet there are outbreaks among unvaccinated people all the time. Perhaps those odds are not that small. COVID-19 is probably never going to go away. And you worry about the long term side effects for the vaccine's one protein, but only focus on the treatment (and not the side effects) for the virus that has 29 of them and tries its best to multiply itself. Do you see how this line of reasoning doesn't seem to compute?