5 ms·

Well obviously part of that is the average car price nearing $40,000. https://www.consumerreports.org/buying-a-car/people-spending-more-on-new-cars-but-prices-

Well obviously part of that is the average car price nearing $40,000. https://www.consumerreports.org/buying-a-car/people-spending-more-on-new-cars-but-prices-not-necessarily-rising/ https://www.consumerreports.org/buying-a-car/people-spending... Well…sort of. As the article details, there’s a lot at the top of the market that skews that average upwards. But even then, I don’t think you can get into a Honda Civic for less than $20,000. And good luck buying an F-150. But also it’s remarkable how long cars last now. A 2010 car is still probably in fantastic shape. (My parents’ Camry sure is.) And while the new safety features are very useful (c’mon, dad, buy the new car, you need that blind spot warning), if the car ain’t broke, why replace it?

throw0101a 5y ago
> Well obviously part of that is the average car price nearing $40,000. Note inflation. I still have my 2003 Golf TDI that I bought brand new for CA$ 30K (all-in). In 2021 that would be the equivalent of CA$ 41K. * https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/related/inflation-calculator/ https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/related/inflation-calculat... Nowadays Golfs (sadly no diesels) are in the CA$ 22-28K range (plus fees/taxs): * https://www.vw.ca/en/models/new-vehicles/golf.html https://www.vw.ca/en/models/new-vehicles/golf.html
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > Note inflation. Inflation has been exceptionally, historically low for over a decade.
  - mdorazio 5y ago
    "Historically low" does not mean zero. Prices today are 23% more than they were in 2010. So a $20,000 car in 2010 would cost just shy of $25k today even if everything about it was exactly the same.
- an_opabinia 5y ago
  Indeed, why really do you think cars have actually gotten so much cheaper? Since it's not inflation.
  - maximus-decimus 5y ago
    Well, for VW specifically, I remember seeing a Jetta review from SavageGeese where he explained VW was able to improve it and make it cheaper at the same time by putting it on the same platform as the more expensive cars and just making it more modular. So at least part of the reason would be improvements in sharing reusing resources between models increasing the economies of scale. In general, car manufacturers also removed stuff people don't care from lower models like better rear-suspension. You also save costs by going electronic e.g. the steering wheel isn't connected to the wheels anymore, it just tells them to turn by wire. Same for the transmission, that's why cars are getting rid of the transmission lever in the middle and using weird buttons instead : it isn't actually connected to the transmission box anymore. This also extends to removing physical buttons/volume knobs.
- gentleman11 5y ago
  Peoples salaries didn’t go up by that same fraction either
  - wutbrodo 5y ago
    Yes, they went up much, much more, almost double the price increase we're discussing. Nominal median household income in 2019 was $69k, compared to $42k in 2003, for an increase of 64%[1]. The price inflation figure that the parent comment shared is about a 36% increase in nominal dollars. Using the parent comment's inflation and ignoring his claimed 25% nominal price decline for the Golf, this means that a new Golf costs a dramatically lower portion of median income. Whoever told you that real median income has been negative since 2003 has badly misled you. I suggest doing a quick spot-check when you hear a new figure, as these figures are very, very easy to find. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/200838/median-household-income-in-the-united-states/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/200838/median-household-... The figures are denominated in 2019 dollars, so I converted the 2003 household income figures to 2003 dollars to get the nominal comparison we're discussing. I used the parent comment's inflation figure for consistency.
    - gentleman11 5y ago
      Interesting, thanks
  - midasuni 5y ago
    33% in 18 years? About 1.5% per year? That does not sound extreme

throw0101a 5y ago

> Well obviously part of that is the average car price nearing $40,000. Note inflation. I still have my 2003 Golf TDI that I bought brand new for CA$ 30K (all-in). In 2021 that would be the equivalent of CA$ 41K. * https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/related/inflation-calculator/ https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/related/inflation-calculat... Nowadays Golfs (sadly no diesels) are in the CA$ 22-28K range (plus fees/taxs): * https://www.vw.ca/en/models/new-vehicles/golf.html https://www.vw.ca/en/models/new-vehicles/golf.html

wolverine876 5y ago
> Note inflation. Inflation has been exceptionally, historically low for over a decade.
- mdorazio 5y ago
  "Historically low" does not mean zero. Prices today are 23% more than they were in 2010. So a $20,000 car in 2010 would cost just shy of $25k today even if everything about it was exactly the same.
an_opabinia 5y ago
Indeed, why really do you think cars have actually gotten so much cheaper? Since it's not inflation.
- maximus-decimus 5y ago
  Well, for VW specifically, I remember seeing a Jetta review from SavageGeese where he explained VW was able to improve it and make it cheaper at the same time by putting it on the same platform as the more expensive cars and just making it more modular. So at least part of the reason would be improvements in sharing reusing resources between models increasing the economies of scale. In general, car manufacturers also removed stuff people don't care from lower models like better rear-suspension. You also save costs by going electronic e.g. the steering wheel isn't connected to the wheels anymore, it just tells them to turn by wire. Same for the transmission, that's why cars are getting rid of the transmission lever in the middle and using weird buttons instead : it isn't actually connected to the transmission box anymore. This also extends to removing physical buttons/volume knobs.
gentleman11 5y ago
Peoples salaries didn’t go up by that same fraction either
- wutbrodo 5y ago
  Yes, they went up much, much more, almost double the price increase we're discussing. Nominal median household income in 2019 was $69k, compared to $42k in 2003, for an increase of 64%[1]. The price inflation figure that the parent comment shared is about a 36% increase in nominal dollars. Using the parent comment's inflation and ignoring his claimed 25% nominal price decline for the Golf, this means that a new Golf costs a dramatically lower portion of median income. Whoever told you that real median income has been negative since 2003 has badly misled you. I suggest doing a quick spot-check when you hear a new figure, as these figures are very, very easy to find. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/200838/median-household-income-in-the-united-states/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/200838/median-household-... The figures are denominated in 2019 dollars, so I converted the 2003 household income figures to 2003 dollars to get the nominal comparison we're discussing. I used the parent comment's inflation figure for consistency.
  - gentleman11 5y ago
    Interesting, thanks
- midasuni 5y ago
  33% in 18 years? About 1.5% per year? That does not sound extreme