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I see the discussion turns out to be general about programming languages. Here is my take: I am doing Ops (aka DevOps, aka system administration) and I was usi

by ilyash 5y ago

I see the discussion turns out to be general about programming languages. Here is my take: I am doing Ops (aka DevOps, aka system administration) and I was using bash and Python. I never clicked with Ruby. I was suffering. Constant thought "why is it so shitty?" Outdated bash doesn't meet any modern expectation from a programming language. Python, as other general purpose languages, was not created for Ops specifically. Running external process is a pain, data manipulation is with list comprehensions instead of more straightforward map() and filter() (or do non-idiomatic Python), quite a few other features missing which I would expect when writing small scripts. I think Ops people deserve better. Result - my own programming language - https://github.com/ngs-lang/ngs https://github.com/ngs-lang/ngs . Is it "better" language? Probably not. I do think it sucks less than others for Ops though.

freedomben 5y ago
It sounds like we do very similar jobs and feel the same way about Python. I'm 97% sure you're going to stick with your own language, but for others seriously give Ruby a look. I absolutely adore Ruby as a scripting language. It's so easy and elegant to shell out to bash and do something with the output. When brevity or familiarity with bash is desired, variables like $? are there also (although there are generally less esoteric ways to do things). Running a simple shell command in Ruby is as easy as using backticks and having the output from the command returned to you as a String (and I always add a .chomp to strip the trailing \n)[1] Example: datestr = `date '+%Y-%m-%d-%H-%M-%S'`.chomp Worth noting too is that Ruby also has a fantastic one-liner command line syntax like perl and awk for example. Check out https://robm.me.uk/2013/11/ruby-enp/ https://robm.me.uk/2013/11/ruby-enp/ and https://benoithamelin.tumblr.com/ruby1line/ https://benoithamelin.tumblr.com/ruby1line/ Also the community is amazing. There are gems for almost everything, and really neat/fun projects like Ruby Warrior: https://github.com/ryanb/ruby-warrior https://github.com/ryanb/ruby-warrior I'll stop now, but suffice it to say Ruby is one of the best tool sin my belt, and I haven't even mentioned the number of times I've thrown down a simple single-file HTTP service based on Sinatra in record time ;-) [1] https://stackoverflow.com/a/2400/2062384 https://stackoverflow.com/a/2400/2062384
- ilyash 5y ago
  > I'm 97% sure you're going to stick with your own language Agree with the estimation :) > but for others seriously give Ruby a look Of course. Python is not out of the question either. I think it's mostly about alignment of how you think and what is possible to express in the language in a straightforward manner. > It's so easy and elegant to shell out That's the area where I think NGS has better facility than pretty much anything else I've seen out there. In NGS, it's the "domain". From the top of my head: * Short syntax for run-the-command-and-parse-output (currently auto detects JSON but customizable) - like backticks in bash but double-backtick on each side. * backticks syntax like in bash (but don't strip the last newline) * Argv facility for constructing command line arguments (if the command is complex) * Automatic handling of exit codes. Errors throw exceptions and no, not any non-zero is an error. * ok: option to specify non-error exit codes for particular run of a program * log: option to log the command being run More at https://github.com/ngs-lang/ngs/wiki/Use-Cases#use-case-ops-scripting https://github.com/ngs-lang/ngs/wiki/Use-Cases#use-case-ops-... > Worth noting too is that Ruby also has a fantastic one-liner command line syntax like perl and awk for example. NGS is somewhat there and somewhat getting there

by ilyash 5y ago

freedomben 5y ago

It sounds like we do very similar jobs and feel the same way about Python. I'm 97% sure you're going to stick with your own language, but for others seriously give Ruby a look. I absolutely adore Ruby as a scripting language. It's so easy and elegant to shell out to bash and do something with the output. When brevity or familiarity with bash is desired, variables like $? are there also (although there are generally less esoteric ways to do things). Running a simple shell command in Ruby is as easy as using backticks and having the output from the command returned to you as a String (and I always add a .chomp to strip the trailing \n)[1] Example: datestr = `date '+%Y-%m-%d-%H-%M-%S'`.chomp Worth noting too is that Ruby also has a fantastic one-liner command line syntax like perl and awk for example. Check out https://robm.me.uk/2013/11/ruby-enp/ https://robm.me.uk/2013/11/ruby-enp/ and https://benoithamelin.tumblr.com/ruby1line/ https://benoithamelin.tumblr.com/ruby1line/ Also the community is amazing. There are gems for almost everything, and really neat/fun projects like Ruby Warrior: https://github.com/ryanb/ruby-warrior https://github.com/ryanb/ruby-warrior I'll stop now, but suffice it to say Ruby is one of the best tool sin my belt, and I haven't even mentioned the number of times I've thrown down a simple single-file HTTP service based on Sinatra in record time ;-) [1] https://stackoverflow.com/a/2400/2062384 https://stackoverflow.com/a/2400/2062384

ilyash 5y ago
> I'm 97% sure you're going to stick with your own language Agree with the estimation :) > but for others seriously give Ruby a look Of course. Python is not out of the question either. I think it's mostly about alignment of how you think and what is possible to express in the language in a straightforward manner. > It's so easy and elegant to shell out That's the area where I think NGS has better facility than pretty much anything else I've seen out there. In NGS, it's the "domain". From the top of my head: * Short syntax for run-the-command-and-parse-output (currently auto detects JSON but customizable) - like backticks in bash but double-backtick on each side. * backticks syntax like in bash (but don't strip the last newline) * Argv facility for constructing command line arguments (if the command is complex) * Automatic handling of exit codes. Errors throw exceptions and no, not any non-zero is an error. * ok: option to specify non-error exit codes for particular run of a program * log: option to log the command being run More at https://github.com/ngs-lang/ngs/wiki/Use-Cases#use-case-ops-scripting https://github.com/ngs-lang/ngs/wiki/Use-Cases#use-case-ops-... > Worth noting too is that Ruby also has a fantastic one-liner command line syntax like perl and awk for example. NGS is somewhat there and somewhat getting there