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Other creative professions have this phenomenon too. In film, there are actors who audition for parts, and actors who have roles pitched to them. Everyone kno

Other creative professions have this phenomenon too. In film, there are actors who audition for parts, and actors who have roles pitched to them. Everyone knows that being famous for your work requires a combination of talent, luck, and hard work, but everyone can't be Zed Shaw. There isn't room. It would be like telling actors "Just do what Jim Carrey did."

kiba 15y ago
You don't have to be famous or uber skilled to not have to be interviewed. I got my first job a month ago simply by being knowing someone on IRC.
- heyrhett 15y ago
  Sure, and people get parts in movies because they know the producer. But, the article is about Zed shaw, and I think the comparison to famous actors applies. I think it's a good point though, that maybe just because you aren't guaranteed to be famous, Zed Shaw probably has some highly effective habits that all developers can learn from. And you don't have to be famous for his advice to be helpful.
  - tjpick 15y ago
    > highly effective habits that all developers can learn from http://programming-motherfucker.com/ http://programming-motherfucker.com/
    - notJim 15y ago
      Every now and then, I start to feel lazy or like I'm wanting to avoid some necessary but tedious task. Then I think to myself "programming, motherfucker" and get that shit done.
      - AltIvan 15y ago
        Hi, this is completly offtopic but i couldn't find another way to contact you: In another thread you complain about the "Unknown or Expired Link" error you sometimes get in HN; i want to tell you that i created a Google Chrome extention that fixs this problem (and also adds some other functionality). You can check it out here: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bldhjkmbdomhijjjnmckgchocnfhkpnd https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bldhjkmbdomhijjjnm... Mmm... if you are not a Chrome user... well... you should become one! :)
- diolpah 15y ago
  I've hired a number of people directly from IRC without a formal interview process. It's a fantastic place to find smart people. But it's important to point out that by virtue of sharing knowledge and posting pastebin urls of your code over a period of time, you are already interviewing, in a sense.
- nostrademons 15y ago
  I think it depends a lot on the relative standing between you and the company. There are a large number of startups and small businesses where I could get a job simply by saying "Hey, I'm interested", walking in, and having a 15-minute chat with the founder. I would probably not want to work for most of them, though, because it's quite boring being the smartest guy in the room. However, the number of people who could get hired at Google or Facebook without an interview is probably in the dozens to low hundreds, worldwide. And many of them probably aren't interested, because they've got their F-you money, or they have a nice tenured research position somewhere where they can do whatever they want.
  - swah 15y ago
    > having a 15-minute chat with the founder How isn't that an interview?
    - nostrademons 15y ago
      Depends whether he offers you the job at the beginning of the chat or the end. The former has happened to me before...
      - deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
    - allwein 15y ago
      Generally there's two points to an interview. 1) Is this person knowledgeable and capable of performing the job I need them to do? 2) Is this person a cultural/personable fit for my team? I think the point of this article is that when you're a "famous" developer with known traits, number 1 is dispensed with. The 15 minute chat is just to determine number 2. I myself have gotten several jobs after just a recommendation from a friend and a quick drink with the manager.
    - SimHacker 15y ago
      How about smoking a joint with your future manager and development team in a hotel room at a conference?
revorad 15y ago
Everyone can't be Zed Shaw or Jim Carey, not because there isn't room, but because it's bloody hard.
- Tanner 15y ago
  I disagree. People become Zed Shaw or Jim Carey based on merit but if everyone is equally meritorious then nobody is. Being good at something is subjective but being better than most people is measurable.
sedev 15y ago
Of course we can't all be Picasso (the role was filled by some guy who was hanging out in Paris at the right time), but that is no reason not to try. Trying to raise the collective professional standard is a Good Thing. I think more people should try to emulate Zed Shaw in terms of coding competence (there are already enough people trying to emulate him in terms of 'surly fellow who gets away with being a tremendous asshole on account of being a tremendous asshole who's usually right').
- noonespecial 15y ago
  They much too often skip the who's usually right part but nail the first half.
  - sedev 15y ago
    Yeah - the first half comes easier. Too easy - I do it myself far too often.
pavel_lishin 15y ago
Relevant post by John Scalzi: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2011/06/15/how-to-have-a-writing-career-like-mine/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2011/06/15/how-to-have-a-writing-... The tldr is: "How to Have a Writing Career Like Mine: You Can't"

kiba 15y ago

You don't have to be famous or uber skilled to not have to be interviewed. I got my first job a month ago simply by being knowing someone on IRC.

heyrhett 15y ago
Sure, and people get parts in movies because they know the producer. But, the article is about Zed shaw, and I think the comparison to famous actors applies. I think it's a good point though, that maybe just because you aren't guaranteed to be famous, Zed Shaw probably has some highly effective habits that all developers can learn from. And you don't have to be famous for his advice to be helpful.
- tjpick 15y ago
  > highly effective habits that all developers can learn from http://programming-motherfucker.com/ http://programming-motherfucker.com/
  - notJim 15y ago
    Every now and then, I start to feel lazy or like I'm wanting to avoid some necessary but tedious task. Then I think to myself "programming, motherfucker" and get that shit done.
    - AltIvan 15y ago
      Hi, this is completly offtopic but i couldn't find another way to contact you: In another thread you complain about the "Unknown or Expired Link" error you sometimes get in HN; i want to tell you that i created a Google Chrome extention that fixs this problem (and also adds some other functionality). You can check it out here: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bldhjkmbdomhijjjnmckgchocnfhkpnd https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bldhjkmbdomhijjjnm... Mmm... if you are not a Chrome user... well... you should become one! :)
diolpah 15y ago
I've hired a number of people directly from IRC without a formal interview process. It's a fantastic place to find smart people. But it's important to point out that by virtue of sharing knowledge and posting pastebin urls of your code over a period of time, you are already interviewing, in a sense.
nostrademons 15y ago
I think it depends a lot on the relative standing between you and the company. There are a large number of startups and small businesses where I could get a job simply by saying "Hey, I'm interested", walking in, and having a 15-minute chat with the founder. I would probably not want to work for most of them, though, because it's quite boring being the smartest guy in the room. However, the number of people who could get hired at Google or Facebook without an interview is probably in the dozens to low hundreds, worldwide. And many of them probably aren't interested, because they've got their F-you money, or they have a nice tenured research position somewhere where they can do whatever they want.
- swah 15y ago
  > having a 15-minute chat with the founder How isn't that an interview?
  - nostrademons 15y ago
    Depends whether he offers you the job at the beginning of the chat or the end. The former has happened to me before...
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
  - allwein 15y ago
    Generally there's two points to an interview. 1) Is this person knowledgeable and capable of performing the job I need them to do? 2) Is this person a cultural/personable fit for my team? I think the point of this article is that when you're a "famous" developer with known traits, number 1 is dispensed with. The 15 minute chat is just to determine number 2. I myself have gotten several jobs after just a recommendation from a friend and a quick drink with the manager.
  - SimHacker 15y ago
    How about smoking a joint with your future manager and development team in a hotel room at a conference?

revorad 15y ago

Everyone can't be Zed Shaw or Jim Carey, not because there isn't room, but because it's bloody hard.

Tanner 15y ago
I disagree. People become Zed Shaw or Jim Carey based on merit but if everyone is equally meritorious then nobody is. Being good at something is subjective but being better than most people is measurable.

sedev 15y ago

Of course we can't all be Picasso (the role was filled by some guy who was hanging out in Paris at the right time), but that is no reason not to try. Trying to raise the collective professional standard is a Good Thing. I think more people should try to emulate Zed Shaw in terms of coding competence (there are already enough people trying to emulate him in terms of 'surly fellow who gets away with being a tremendous asshole on account of being a tremendous asshole who's usually right').

noonespecial 15y ago
They much too often skip the who's usually right part but nail the first half.
- sedev 15y ago
  Yeah - the first half comes easier. Too easy - I do it myself far too often.

pavel_lishin 15y ago

Relevant post by John Scalzi: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2011/06/15/how-to-have-a-writing-career-like-mine/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2011/06/15/how-to-have-a-writing-... The tldr is: "How to Have a Writing Career Like Mine: You Can't"