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But downstream didn't demand anything. AFAIK there was no communication until the dev asked for it to be removed, they asked why, and he said the equivalent of

But downstream didn't demand anything. AFAIK there was no communication until the dev asked for it to be removed, they asked why, and he said the equivalent of "just do what I say", which obviously didn't get him anywhere. And the public opinion was really only against the dev because he was being intentionally difficult while the NixOS people were bending over backwards to look for a mutually-satisfying solution. It would have been a non-story if the dev hadn't been a bit of an ass in public forums.

zargon 5y ago
> But downstream didn't demand anything. As you described above, they damanded a conversation about why he was making the request he did. They couldn't just acknowledge that he had a request and choose to respect it or not when it was clear he didn't want to talk about it. Instead they dragged him into a huge spectacle. Even after they closed the issue on their side, (other?) NixOS people went to endlessly harass him on the home assistant forums.
- ninjin 5y ago
  Not sure if I agree with “NixOS people went to endlessly harass him” unless there is another thread apart from this one [1]. Mic92 is clearly well across the line stating that “to keep the home-assistant free-software it would be better not increase the reliance on his projects”, but for example SuperSandro2000 and blaggacao are certainly not harassing unless you deem any action rather than accepting frenck’s request harassment. The whole exchange also seems to have lasted for about three hours. It could (and should) probably have been avoided, but let us not blow a brief interchange on a public e-mail list out of proportion. [1]: https://community.home-assistant.io/t/consider-to-avoid-adding-library-dependencies-from-frenck/315185 https://community.home-assistant.io/t/consider-to-avoid-addi... Personally, I probably would have sided with jtojnar that cited Debian’s policy to drop packages when the relationship to the upstream is beyond repairing [2]. [2]: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/126326#issuecomment-860067488 https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/126326#issuecomment-86...
- SuperSandro2000 5y ago
  > NixOS people went to endlessly harass him on the home assistant forums. That is just a lie and not what happened.
- squiggleblaz 5y ago
  > As you described above, they damanded a conversation about why he was making the request he did. They didn't demand a conversation. They continued a conversation. If he doesn't want to engage in discussion with them he shouldn't have. > They couldn't just acknowledge that he had a request and choose to respect it or not when it was clear he didn't want to talk about it. They were trying to arrive at a compromise. This is usually regarded as part of good faith negotiations. Trying to describe this as "dragging him into a huge spectacle" is quite shocking to me. Do you genuinely believe that if a person says "please do not distribute my package" the only reply to that thread should be one that says "we will remove it" or "we will not remove it" and then the thread should be closed? > Even after they closed the issue on their side, (other?) NixOS people went to endlessly harass him on the home assistant forums. I don't think this is an accurate description of that thread, but indeed, I think opening that thread was an example of poor judgement. A threat to make a certain library proprietary during a heated discussion is something that might be reconsidered or it might be a bluff. It should be confined to the negotiation unless it comes to fruition.

zargon 5y ago

> But downstream didn't demand anything. As you described above, they damanded a conversation about why he was making the request he did. They couldn't just acknowledge that he had a request and choose to respect it or not when it was clear he didn't want to talk about it. Instead they dragged him into a huge spectacle. Even after they closed the issue on their side, (other?) NixOS people went to endlessly harass him on the home assistant forums.

ninjin 5y ago
Not sure if I agree with “NixOS people went to endlessly harass him” unless there is another thread apart from this one [1]. Mic92 is clearly well across the line stating that “to keep the home-assistant free-software it would be better not increase the reliance on his projects”, but for example SuperSandro2000 and blaggacao are certainly not harassing unless you deem any action rather than accepting frenck’s request harassment. The whole exchange also seems to have lasted for about three hours. It could (and should) probably have been avoided, but let us not blow a brief interchange on a public e-mail list out of proportion. [1]: https://community.home-assistant.io/t/consider-to-avoid-adding-library-dependencies-from-frenck/315185 https://community.home-assistant.io/t/consider-to-avoid-addi... Personally, I probably would have sided with jtojnar that cited Debian’s policy to drop packages when the relationship to the upstream is beyond repairing [2]. [2]: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/126326#issuecomment-860067488 https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/126326#issuecomment-86...
SuperSandro2000 5y ago
> NixOS people went to endlessly harass him on the home assistant forums. That is just a lie and not what happened.
squiggleblaz 5y ago
> As you described above, they damanded a conversation about why he was making the request he did. They didn't demand a conversation. They continued a conversation. If he doesn't want to engage in discussion with them he shouldn't have. > They couldn't just acknowledge that he had a request and choose to respect it or not when it was clear he didn't want to talk about it. They were trying to arrive at a compromise. This is usually regarded as part of good faith negotiations. Trying to describe this as "dragging him into a huge spectacle" is quite shocking to me. Do you genuinely believe that if a person says "please do not distribute my package" the only reply to that thread should be one that says "we will remove it" or "we will not remove it" and then the thread should be closed? > Even after they closed the issue on their side, (other?) NixOS people went to endlessly harass him on the home assistant forums. I don't think this is an accurate description of that thread, but indeed, I think opening that thread was an example of poor judgement. A threat to make a certain library proprietary during a heated discussion is something that might be reconsidered or it might be a bluff. It should be confined to the negotiation unless it comes to fruition.