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> Learn to behave in class. Who’s the job to teach those kids how to behave in class ? Their parents ? And what do you do if their parents don’t care (which is

by pjerem 5y ago

> Learn to behave in class. Who’s the job to teach those kids how to behave in class ? Their parents ? And what do you do if their parents don’t care (which is the common case with those kids) ? What do you do if the student has undiagnosed mental illness ? Entire generations of misbehaved children were in fact suffering ADHD. How do you manage a misbehaving children that is bullied every single morning when he comes to school ? Not educating a kid is ruining its life and, since you speak with « brutal truth », yeah, just sentence those students to jail for life already, at least they’ll not have to struggle with hunger and homelessness during years.

concordDance 5y ago
> just sentence those students to jail for life already Seems inefficient, exhile them to Somalia instead.
Khaine 5y ago
The problem is keeping those kids in school ruins the education of all of the kids in that class. How is it fair to damage the potential of so many kids, because one kid is disruptive, and their parents don’t care.
- pjerem 5y ago
  The options here are not binary. There are other possibilities than keeping them ruining the class or abandoning them. A lot of countries have dedicated schools for those children, so they damage nothing around them and can be treated individually. And in lot of cases, since it requires removing them from families where their problems comes, it’s a breadth of fresh air for them.
  - Khaine 5y ago
    As an outsider, it looks to me like the options in America are binary. Either the student can be removed from the class, or they can’t. The problem as I understand it, is that in regular schools teachers are disempowered from removing trouble-making students for a number of reasons, including “equity”. I agree, that special programs and schools are required for challenging students. But that is a different question.
A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
Someone has to be there for that kid to say 'shut up and study'. Failing that, disruptive student is a drag on the rest. I am sympathetic to the thought process behind it but the end results are hard to argue with.
- pjerem 5y ago
  I agree. But if their parents are not able to say « shut up and study », it should be the role of the public power to say it, even if it means transferring them into specialized schools, but letting them aside of the road should never be an acceptable option, because it will hurt them and it hurts the society (by making up future criminals and spreading wrong values)
  - pdonis 5y ago
    > if their parents are not able to say « shut up and study », it should be the role of the public power to say it, even if it means transferring them into specialized schools Who pays for the specialized schools? If it's we, the taxpayers, then we have a right to expect that those schools do their jobs. Do they? Do you have any specific references you can give?
pdonis 5y ago
> Who’s the job to teach those kids how to behave in class ? Their parents ? Yes. > what do you do if their parents don’t care Then other family members should pitch in. Or other adults in the kid's life should pitch in. Or, if you believe the government can exercise such power with good judgment (I personally don't), you could have the parents' rights terminated and put the kids up for adoption. What you can't do is ask schools to do the job, because that isn't what schools are for. Schools are not supposed to be rehabilitation centers for kids who can't be educated because they have bad parents. They're supposed to be places where kids who can be educated, are educated. Trying to make them into rehabilitation centers just ruins the education of all the other kids who can be educated. > Not educating a kid is ruining its life I entirely agree. But that doesn't change the fact that a kid who refuses to behave in class cannot be educated. Even if it's not the kid's fault, that's still the fact. Also, if kids who can't be educated are put in schools, now you don't just have them not being educated, you have all the kids not being educated because of the constant disruptions. How is that an improvement? [Edit: I see you mentioned specialized schools elsewhere in the thread. I'll respond to that point there.] > just sentence those students to jail for life already I didn't do that; the kids' parents did, by making them unable to be educated. So why aren't you all on fire to hold the parents accountable? Why are you going after me, who had nothing to do with it?

by pjerem 5y ago

concordDance 5y ago

> just sentence those students to jail for life already Seems inefficient, exhile them to Somalia instead.

Khaine 5y ago

The problem is keeping those kids in school ruins the education of all of the kids in that class. How is it fair to damage the potential of so many kids, because one kid is disruptive, and their parents don’t care.

pjerem 5y ago
The options here are not binary. There are other possibilities than keeping them ruining the class or abandoning them. A lot of countries have dedicated schools for those children, so they damage nothing around them and can be treated individually. And in lot of cases, since it requires removing them from families where their problems comes, it’s a breadth of fresh air for them.
- Khaine 5y ago
  As an outsider, it looks to me like the options in America are binary. Either the student can be removed from the class, or they can’t. The problem as I understand it, is that in regular schools teachers are disempowered from removing trouble-making students for a number of reasons, including “equity”. I agree, that special programs and schools are required for challenging students. But that is a different question.

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago

Someone has to be there for that kid to say 'shut up and study'. Failing that, disruptive student is a drag on the rest. I am sympathetic to the thought process behind it but the end results are hard to argue with.

pjerem 5y ago
I agree. But if their parents are not able to say « shut up and study », it should be the role of the public power to say it, even if it means transferring them into specialized schools, but letting them aside of the road should never be an acceptable option, because it will hurt them and it hurts the society (by making up future criminals and spreading wrong values)
- pdonis 5y ago
  > if their parents are not able to say « shut up and study », it should be the role of the public power to say it, even if it means transferring them into specialized schools Who pays for the specialized schools? If it's we, the taxpayers, then we have a right to expect that those schools do their jobs. Do they? Do you have any specific references you can give?

pdonis 5y ago

> Who’s the job to teach those kids how to behave in class ? Their parents ? Yes. > what do you do if their parents don’t care Then other family members should pitch in. Or other adults in the kid's life should pitch in. Or, if you believe the government can exercise such power with good judgment (I personally don't), you could have the parents' rights terminated and put the kids up for adoption. What you can't do is ask schools to do the job, because that isn't what schools are for. Schools are not supposed to be rehabilitation centers for kids who can't be educated because they have bad parents. They're supposed to be places where kids who can be educated, are educated. Trying to make them into rehabilitation centers just ruins the education of all the other kids who can be educated. > Not educating a kid is ruining its life I entirely agree. But that doesn't change the fact that a kid who refuses to behave in class cannot be educated. Even if it's not the kid's fault, that's still the fact. Also, if kids who can't be educated are put in schools, now you don't just have them not being educated, you have all the kids not being educated because of the constant disruptions. How is that an improvement? [Edit: I see you mentioned specialized schools elsewhere in the thread. I'll respond to that point there.] > just sentence those students to jail for life already I didn't do that; the kids' parents did, by making them unable to be educated. So why aren't you all on fire to hold the parents accountable? Why are you going after me, who had nothing to do with it?