4 ms·

> Perhaps most transformative, laptops will eventually get direct connections to cellular networks, including 5G. "The better to surveil you with, my dear," re

by Lammy 5y ago

> Perhaps most transformative, laptops will eventually get direct connections to cellular networks, including 5G. "The better to surveil you with, my dear," replied the wolf.

zitterbewegung 5y ago
This is already an option on a large number of business laptops.
AprilArcus 5y ago
honestly ridiculous that cellular modems weren't already ubiquitous on laptops ten years ago
- tmccrary55 5y ago
  I've never used the cellular stuff in my laptops because it's easy enough to use my phone's connection. No need to pay for two connections.
  - petschge 5y ago
    Enough providers in Europe are willing to sell you a second SIM card for a one time fee ($5 to $15) that shares the data budget with the sim card in your phone. Only trick is to configure which of the two SIM cards gets SMS for your number. (Yes you can pick the one in your laptop and yes you can pull the SMS from the cellular modem using AT commands. But it get's annoying after a about a day of nerd glee.)
  - Lammy 5y ago
    It's really nice to only have to worry about one battery, and the physically-larger size of the device gives way more wiggle room to play with Antenna Diversity. I have this setup myself and am not trying to be a luddite: https://i.imgur.com/rUKf33K.png https://i.imgur.com/rUKf33K.png All the replies are missing my point though since this is currently a niche feature that will eventually be standard for everyone, everywhere. General-purpose computing loses the expectation of spatial privacy, and an individual opting out will just draw the Eye Of Providence's gaze toward them, like how using Tor or reading LKM.net puts you on a list today.
- rapind 5y ago
  Why? Was there much of a market for it? At least where I am cellular data is stupid expensive compared with curb internet. As it becomes more affordable though I might be willing to pay an extra $50 for a cellular chip. Not until then though for my use case at least. Keep in mind that a lot of iPads are sold without cellular as a cheaper option.
  - antifa 5y ago
    I've been wanting it in every tablet/laptop for at least a decade, but I've never bought one since the monthly data is priced as if made of solid gold. The cost is just too impractical over just using USB/wifi tethering.
- reaperducer 5y ago
  Maybe because we keep changing specifications and modems and antenna designs every few years. Just the devices I've owned: AMPS → GSM → PCS → 3G → VOCsomethingverizon → LTE → WiMAX → 4GLTE → 5G
petschge 5y ago
Eventually? I have had Thinkpads with build-in cellular modem since at least 2004. (And I have used them under Linux. Fun memories of wvdial back in the days.) I have not had 5G in a laptop yet, but direct internet access over a cellular network, without wifi is REALLY not new in laptops.
- Lammy 5y ago
  I am typing this comment on a Thinkpad X210 sporting a Telit LM960 and an unlimited T-Mobile SIM, but it can't pinpoint me with centimeter precision :) https://www.fastcompany.com/90314058/5g-means-youll-have-to-say-goodbye-to-your-location-privacy https://www.fastcompany.com/90314058/5g-means-youll-have-to-... https://www.5gradar.com/news/vodafone-tracking-tech-pinpoints-location-to-within-10cm-for-5g-use-cases https://www.5gradar.com/news/vodafone-tracking-tech-pinpoint...
  - judge2020 5y ago
    https://techship.com/products/telit-lm960-lte-cat-18-gps-mpcie/ https://techship.com/products/telit-lm960-lte-cat-18-gps-mpc... This says your modem supports Galileo and GPS, or do you mean the cell provider themselves can't pinpoint you? Also, networks are shutting down a lot of 3G equipment[0]. I'm sure in 15 years LTE will be shut off as well. 0: https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/27/22457255/verizon-att-3g-shutdown-date https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/27/22457255/verizon-att-3g-s...
    - Lammy 5y ago
      > or do you mean the cell provider themselves can’t pinpoint you? This, but with the caveat that I view the telecom cartel as an extension of government and not as separate entities that cooperate only when needed. Joseph Nacchio can tell you how it will go down if any of them tried to stand up for the rights of individuals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qwest#Refusal_of_NSA_surveillance_requests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qwest#Refusal_of_NSA_surveilla... Our current technologies are already very good at this. Forgive me for committing an Internet Sin to make my point, but here’s my actual real-world “coarse” location derived from LTE, shown via SignalReborn (no relation to the chat app) on my jailbroken iPhone. The blue dot is my GPS location for comparison, the green line is my active LTE base station, and the red dots are all the base stations in my device’s cache: https://i.imgur.com/cDLnuQk.png https://i.imgur.com/cDLnuQk.png As you can see, a lot of location info can be derived from just one LTE tower plus the signal/noise info of my device. Triangulate three LTE towers and it’s easy to see what building I’m in. 5G is not only technically more capable in this regard, but everyone will have it in every device. 5G on my laptop will be able to tell which side of the bed I’m sitting on. 5G on my watch will be able to tell if I wore taller shoes today. Anyone trying to hide will just invite more scrutiny. I’m not trying to stop the future from occurring, but I hope we can all be aware of what we’re giving in exchange for all this nice connectivity.
errantspark 5y ago
I've had a 13" ultrabook w/ cellular for a couple years now and it's the best thing ever.

by Lammy 5y ago

> Perhaps most transformative, laptops will eventually get direct connections to cellular networks, including 5G. "The better to surveil you with, my dear," replied the wolf.

zitterbewegung 5y ago

This is already an option on a large number of business laptops.

AprilArcus 5y ago

honestly ridiculous that cellular modems weren't already ubiquitous on laptops ten years ago

tmccrary55 5y ago
I've never used the cellular stuff in my laptops because it's easy enough to use my phone's connection. No need to pay for two connections.
- petschge 5y ago
  Enough providers in Europe are willing to sell you a second SIM card for a one time fee ($5 to $15) that shares the data budget with the sim card in your phone. Only trick is to configure which of the two SIM cards gets SMS for your number. (Yes you can pick the one in your laptop and yes you can pull the SMS from the cellular modem using AT commands. But it get's annoying after a about a day of nerd glee.)
- Lammy 5y ago
  It's really nice to only have to worry about one battery, and the physically-larger size of the device gives way more wiggle room to play with Antenna Diversity. I have this setup myself and am not trying to be a luddite: https://i.imgur.com/rUKf33K.png https://i.imgur.com/rUKf33K.png All the replies are missing my point though since this is currently a niche feature that will eventually be standard for everyone, everywhere. General-purpose computing loses the expectation of spatial privacy, and an individual opting out will just draw the Eye Of Providence's gaze toward them, like how using Tor or reading LKM.net puts you on a list today.
rapind 5y ago
Why? Was there much of a market for it? At least where I am cellular data is stupid expensive compared with curb internet. As it becomes more affordable though I might be willing to pay an extra $50 for a cellular chip. Not until then though for my use case at least. Keep in mind that a lot of iPads are sold without cellular as a cheaper option.
- antifa 5y ago
  I've been wanting it in every tablet/laptop for at least a decade, but I've never bought one since the monthly data is priced as if made of solid gold. The cost is just too impractical over just using USB/wifi tethering.
reaperducer 5y ago
Maybe because we keep changing specifications and modems and antenna designs every few years. Just the devices I've owned: AMPS → GSM → PCS → 3G → VOCsomethingverizon → LTE → WiMAX → 4GLTE → 5G

petschge 5y ago

Eventually? I have had Thinkpads with build-in cellular modem since at least 2004. (And I have used them under Linux. Fun memories of wvdial back in the days.) I have not had 5G in a laptop yet, but direct internet access over a cellular network, without wifi is REALLY not new in laptops.

Lammy 5y ago
I am typing this comment on a Thinkpad X210 sporting a Telit LM960 and an unlimited T-Mobile SIM, but it can't pinpoint me with centimeter precision :) https://www.fastcompany.com/90314058/5g-means-youll-have-to-say-goodbye-to-your-location-privacy https://www.fastcompany.com/90314058/5g-means-youll-have-to-... https://www.5gradar.com/news/vodafone-tracking-tech-pinpoints-location-to-within-10cm-for-5g-use-cases https://www.5gradar.com/news/vodafone-tracking-tech-pinpoint...
- judge2020 5y ago
  https://techship.com/products/telit-lm960-lte-cat-18-gps-mpcie/ https://techship.com/products/telit-lm960-lte-cat-18-gps-mpc... This says your modem supports Galileo and GPS, or do you mean the cell provider themselves can't pinpoint you? Also, networks are shutting down a lot of 3G equipment[0]. I'm sure in 15 years LTE will be shut off as well. 0: https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/27/22457255/verizon-att-3g-shutdown-date https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/27/22457255/verizon-att-3g-s...
  - Lammy 5y ago
    > or do you mean the cell provider themselves can’t pinpoint you? This, but with the caveat that I view the telecom cartel as an extension of government and not as separate entities that cooperate only when needed. Joseph Nacchio can tell you how it will go down if any of them tried to stand up for the rights of individuals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qwest#Refusal_of_NSA_surveillance_requests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qwest#Refusal_of_NSA_surveilla... Our current technologies are already very good at this. Forgive me for committing an Internet Sin to make my point, but here’s my actual real-world “coarse” location derived from LTE, shown via SignalReborn (no relation to the chat app) on my jailbroken iPhone. The blue dot is my GPS location for comparison, the green line is my active LTE base station, and the red dots are all the base stations in my device’s cache: https://i.imgur.com/cDLnuQk.png https://i.imgur.com/cDLnuQk.png As you can see, a lot of location info can be derived from just one LTE tower plus the signal/noise info of my device. Triangulate three LTE towers and it’s easy to see what building I’m in. 5G is not only technically more capable in this regard, but everyone will have it in every device. 5G on my laptop will be able to tell which side of the bed I’m sitting on. 5G on my watch will be able to tell if I wore taller shoes today. Anyone trying to hide will just invite more scrutiny. I’m not trying to stop the future from occurring, but I hope we can all be aware of what we’re giving in exchange for all this nice connectivity.

errantspark 5y ago

I've had a 13" ultrabook w/ cellular for a couple years now and it's the best thing ever.