4 ms·

This stuff (the 10 cents MCUs) is fantastic but probably an example of something that will never again be produced in the US or Europe. I was refering to the v

This stuff (the 10 cents MCUs) is fantastic but probably an example of something that will never again be produced in the US or Europe. I was refering to the various statistics you can find on this, and I think they count by monetary value. Because the US, Taiwan, and South Korea sits on the expensive high-value add stuff, they weigh the most. China has been entering the industry from the lower end, but now after the tech war, they are forced into the higher end, even if it is not economical viable. So together with this made-in-america policy, traditional allies like South Korea and Taiwan are being squeezed. I personally believe that the tech war will deescalate drastically at some point, but if this continues we are going to end up with a complete parallel world of semiconductors all in Chinese.

cartoonworld 5y ago
Maybe, but the kind of fabs we have left in the USA are running older process nodes and I don't really see why they can't crank out lower performance MCUs and integrated parts indefinitely. There's probably going to be a kind of sweet spot that develops for fab performance, it may very well be the case that most things don't need a 75nm node process, and it will be possible to squeeze a ton of value out between 100-500. The 10-cent mcu surely doesn't need great RF and thermal performance. In my mind, the largest problem is where the integrators and product manufacturers are and not whether we can churn out silicon in the US.
- throwaway4good 5y ago
  It is not for technical reasons, but the price point of 10 cents, that is not sustainable in the US. And as you kinda said: The customers are all in China.
  - cartoonworld 5y ago
    If the US process nodes are older, larger node size, as we said and production is economically unsustainable as US production, but the customers are all in China, how is the tax credit for domestic US fab going to hurt Taiwan, Japan, Korea? Wouldn't it simply help bootstrap domestic production and make the economics more attractive?

cartoonworld 5y ago

Maybe, but the kind of fabs we have left in the USA are running older process nodes and I don't really see why they can't crank out lower performance MCUs and integrated parts indefinitely. There's probably going to be a kind of sweet spot that develops for fab performance, it may very well be the case that most things don't need a 75nm node process, and it will be possible to squeeze a ton of value out between 100-500. The 10-cent mcu surely doesn't need great RF and thermal performance. In my mind, the largest problem is where the integrators and product manufacturers are and not whether we can churn out silicon in the US.

throwaway4good 5y ago
It is not for technical reasons, but the price point of 10 cents, that is not sustainable in the US. And as you kinda said: The customers are all in China.
- cartoonworld 5y ago
  If the US process nodes are older, larger node size, as we said and production is economically unsustainable as US production, but the customers are all in China, how is the tax credit for domestic US fab going to hurt Taiwan, Japan, Korea? Wouldn't it simply help bootstrap domestic production and make the economics more attractive?