5 ms·

Well, in Brazil, the president (Borsalino) is promoting ivermectin as covid treatment. I can tell you is not working at all. I doesn't help at all. I have a co

Well, in Brazil, the president (Borsalino) is promoting ivermectin as covid treatment. I can tell you is not working at all. I doesn't help at all. I have a coworker who as using ivermectin as prophylactic and went to ICU (he is recovering now).

innocentoldguy 5y ago
That's weird. I just read about a study in a Japanese newspaper today stating that Ivermectin works great.
Ivdg3 5y ago
Sample size 1.
loceng 5y ago
At what dose and frequency? Was it real Ivermectin or perhaps counterfeit? What was his overall health to begin with? I fucking love HN - downvoting valid questions for criteria.
BrissyCoder 5y ago
How do you know he wouldn't be dead if they hadn't been taking it?
- robbiep 5y ago
  Because a prophylactic means taking it regularly in order to avoid catching it, with the implication of the poster’s statement being that ivermectin, which carries significant risks when taken by a human at various doses, was the cause of the person going to ICU
  - argvargc 5y ago
    Exactly. Just because someone doesn't dose something correctly, doesn't mean there is necessarily anything wrong with it. Shall we ban water? Sometimes people don't dose that correctly either, and drown. What a dangerous substance!
    - edmundsauto 5y ago
      The valuable part of your comment would have been more impactful if it weren't for the following 2 paragraphs about water.
      - argvargc 5y ago
        Maybe, it depends on your opinion of the established safety profile of Ivermectin prior to its attempted maligning. It's a fair comparison to this commenter.
    - robbiep 5y ago
      Your absurdist attempts aside, the important thing to consider with a prophylactic medication is the therapeutic index. Let’s take vaccines. Covid itself has a risk of harm of around 1:100 for older age groups of requiring hospitalisation. Risk of harm for vaccines is established at around 1:200,000. Ivermectin? There is no good data on the therapeutic index however it is a toxic substance with a low therapeutic index and a narrow therapeutic window. The sensible thing given the available data is to encourage vaccination. Barring that, masks and social distancing. And of course there are places where both there is no vaccine supply, and social distancing is economically in feasible. Is this a use case for ivermectin? Most data says no because establishing TI and TW and ensuring adequate safety of dosing is logistically about as difficult as maintaining social distancing. Good chat
      - mikedilger 5y ago
        Risk of serious harm from vaccines from a country where I trust the people a lot more than Americans is 1:3571 (based on 446,380 doses). Where are you getting the 1:200,000 from? https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/vaccine-report-overview.asp https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/vaccine-report-overview...
        spadez 5y ago
        125 serious AEFI in 446,380 doses. 1:3571 indeed. But here too the reporting is open to anyone, and is voluntary. So chances of large under reporting is present here as well. Which is a bit scary..
argvargc 5y ago
That a widely-disputed "leader" is "promoting" a treatment in a country as diverse and with as many systemic issues as Brazil, has no necessary bearing nor indication of that treatments actual use or resultant efficacy. That you have a friend that took it and went to the ICU is similarly meaningless. What dosage did he take? What other predispositions did he have? How badly was he exposed? What other treatments were used? Did he keep taking it throughout, or not? You say he's recovering now, would he have died without it, then?
- spacial 5y ago
  shut the f** up. The president and all his ball suckers are promoting misinformation since the beginning. people are eating ivermectin and HCQ as candies, and you keep saying should be that ivermectin is saving people? I lost another friend yesterday and we got 500k deaths. IF THERE WAS ANY GOOD USE OF any of these "miracles" drugs I'd be happy. People are dying because of these misinformation. Show me any good article (not a pre-print) you fool.
  - argvargc 5y ago
    59 peer-reviewed studies listed here, of 97 total: https://c19ivermectin.com/ https://c19ivermectin.com/ Eg, one of the most recent peer-reviewed meta-studies, whose authors include advisors to the WHO, just published in the Journal of American Therapeutics: https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Abstract/9000/Ivermectin_for_Prevention_and_Treatment_of.98040.aspx https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Abstract/9000/...
    - spacial 5y ago
      you are better than that. C19ivermectin.... c19study... all the same psyops. there were no BANS on any of these medicines because of the pandemic. think about vaccines..
StavrosK 5y ago
Borsalino?
perryizgr8 5y ago
> I doesn't help at all. I have a coworker who as using ivermectin as prophylactic and went to ICU (he is recovering now). This is an anecdote, and it is dangerous to generalize from it. I have several family members who seemed to respond well to Ivermectin, and recovered better than their initial condition would have indicated.
- spacial 5y ago
  ok, show me good science. I drank beer all this time, didn't got any covid yet. MAYBE BEER IS THE MEDICIN. BIG PHARMA IS HIDING FROM US.
  - perryizgr8 5y ago
    I am not saying it is definitely a great medicine for Covid and everyone should use it, but we must be careful to not mandate the opposite as well. Let individual patients make the decision to use it with help from their respective doctors. If there is a genuine beneficial effect, it will emerge naturally and more doctors will urge their patients to go for it. If there isn't, the opposite will happen. Banning it from the top is not going to help most people.

innocentoldguy 5y ago

That's weird. I just read about a study in a Japanese newspaper today stating that Ivermectin works great.

Ivdg3 5y ago

Sample size 1.

loceng 5y ago

At what dose and frequency? Was it real Ivermectin or perhaps counterfeit? What was his overall health to begin with? I fucking love HN - downvoting valid questions for criteria.

BrissyCoder 5y ago

How do you know he wouldn't be dead if they hadn't been taking it?

robbiep 5y ago
Because a prophylactic means taking it regularly in order to avoid catching it, with the implication of the poster’s statement being that ivermectin, which carries significant risks when taken by a human at various doses, was the cause of the person going to ICU
- argvargc 5y ago
  Exactly. Just because someone doesn't dose something correctly, doesn't mean there is necessarily anything wrong with it. Shall we ban water? Sometimes people don't dose that correctly either, and drown. What a dangerous substance!
  - edmundsauto 5y ago
    The valuable part of your comment would have been more impactful if it weren't for the following 2 paragraphs about water.
    - argvargc 5y ago
      Maybe, it depends on your opinion of the established safety profile of Ivermectin prior to its attempted maligning. It's a fair comparison to this commenter.
  - robbiep 5y ago
    Your absurdist attempts aside, the important thing to consider with a prophylactic medication is the therapeutic index. Let’s take vaccines. Covid itself has a risk of harm of around 1:100 for older age groups of requiring hospitalisation. Risk of harm for vaccines is established at around 1:200,000. Ivermectin? There is no good data on the therapeutic index however it is a toxic substance with a low therapeutic index and a narrow therapeutic window. The sensible thing given the available data is to encourage vaccination. Barring that, masks and social distancing. And of course there are places where both there is no vaccine supply, and social distancing is economically in feasible. Is this a use case for ivermectin? Most data says no because establishing TI and TW and ensuring adequate safety of dosing is logistically about as difficult as maintaining social distancing. Good chat
    - mikedilger 5y ago
      Risk of serious harm from vaccines from a country where I trust the people a lot more than Americans is 1:3571 (based on 446,380 doses). Where are you getting the 1:200,000 from? https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/vaccine-report-overview.asp https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/vaccine-report-overview...
      - spadez 5y ago
        125 serious AEFI in 446,380 doses. 1:3571 indeed. But here too the reporting is open to anyone, and is voluntary. So chances of large under reporting is present here as well. Which is a bit scary..

argvargc 5y ago

That a widely-disputed "leader" is "promoting" a treatment in a country as diverse and with as many systemic issues as Brazil, has no necessary bearing nor indication of that treatments actual use or resultant efficacy. That you have a friend that took it and went to the ICU is similarly meaningless. What dosage did he take? What other predispositions did he have? How badly was he exposed? What other treatments were used? Did he keep taking it throughout, or not? You say he's recovering now, would he have died without it, then?

spacial 5y ago
shut the f** up. The president and all his ball suckers are promoting misinformation since the beginning. people are eating ivermectin and HCQ as candies, and you keep saying should be that ivermectin is saving people? I lost another friend yesterday and we got 500k deaths. IF THERE WAS ANY GOOD USE OF any of these "miracles" drugs I'd be happy. People are dying because of these misinformation. Show me any good article (not a pre-print) you fool.
- argvargc 5y ago
  59 peer-reviewed studies listed here, of 97 total: https://c19ivermectin.com/ https://c19ivermectin.com/ Eg, one of the most recent peer-reviewed meta-studies, whose authors include advisors to the WHO, just published in the Journal of American Therapeutics: https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Abstract/9000/Ivermectin_for_Prevention_and_Treatment_of.98040.aspx https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Abstract/9000/...
  - spacial 5y ago
    you are better than that. C19ivermectin.... c19study... all the same psyops. there were no BANS on any of these medicines because of the pandemic. think about vaccines..

StavrosK 5y ago

Borsalino?

perryizgr8 5y ago

> I doesn't help at all. I have a coworker who as using ivermectin as prophylactic and went to ICU (he is recovering now). This is an anecdote, and it is dangerous to generalize from it. I have several family members who seemed to respond well to Ivermectin, and recovered better than their initial condition would have indicated.

spacial 5y ago
ok, show me good science. I drank beer all this time, didn't got any covid yet. MAYBE BEER IS THE MEDICIN. BIG PHARMA IS HIDING FROM US.
- perryizgr8 5y ago
  I am not saying it is definitely a great medicine for Covid and everyone should use it, but we must be careful to not mandate the opposite as well. Let individual patients make the decision to use it with help from their respective doctors. If there is a genuine beneficial effect, it will emerge naturally and more doctors will urge their patients to go for it. If there isn't, the opposite will happen. Banning it from the top is not going to help most people.