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I've used most of these, and for the times when aesthetics don't matter, they're fine, though I find that automated layouts never really work well, and become t

I've used most of these, and for the times when aesthetics don't matter, they're fine, though I find that automated layouts never really work well, and become too messy to make practical diagrams for most purposes. (Maybe this an area where machine learning could improve the algorithms.) A new tool that has impressed me, though, is FigJam [1], which is a new type of document in Figma that's currently in beta. It's basically Visio, but with a fantastically intuitive UI and beautiful rendering style; super easy to draw boxes and lines and so on. Best of all, it's got real-time, web-based collaboration built in, and it's as solid as Figma (which is also fantastic). [1] https://www.figma.com/figjam/ https://www.figma.com/figjam/

cratermoon 5y ago
If you're really into shaving yaks, all the tools I mentioned allow for fine-grained modification of the aesthetics and layout. Two questions about FigJam then: 1. What format does it store the saved files? Is it plain text, does it compress well, can it be diff'd? 2. Can I store the saved files locally and put them in the version control/CRM system of my choice, or are they all stored on Figma's servers?
- atombender 5y ago
  Fine-grained, sure, but if I have to tell the tool how to do things, I might as well just fire up Illustrator. What I love about FigJam is that everything looks great with zero effort. It doesn't do auto-layout, which is fine, because nobody does that well anyway — ultimately, layout tends to be a "semantic" issue that tools can't automate. You can import/export diagrams as files, but they're in a proprietary binary format. You can, however, export as SVG. And Figma does support versioning.
  - cratermoon 5y ago
    If I understand correctly: 1, proprietary binary, it's not plain text, can't be diff'd doesn't compress as well as plain text at least. 2. files are stored on Figma's servers and I'm bound to their storage and versioning infrastructure.
kenniskrag 5y ago
on plantuml you can specify if the class should be placed, left, right, top, bottom. That helped me a lot.

cratermoon 5y ago

If you're really into shaving yaks, all the tools I mentioned allow for fine-grained modification of the aesthetics and layout. Two questions about FigJam then: 1. What format does it store the saved files? Is it plain text, does it compress well, can it be diff'd? 2. Can I store the saved files locally and put them in the version control/CRM system of my choice, or are they all stored on Figma's servers?

atombender 5y ago
Fine-grained, sure, but if I have to tell the tool how to do things, I might as well just fire up Illustrator. What I love about FigJam is that everything looks great with zero effort. It doesn't do auto-layout, which is fine, because nobody does that well anyway — ultimately, layout tends to be a "semantic" issue that tools can't automate. You can import/export diagrams as files, but they're in a proprietary binary format. You can, however, export as SVG. And Figma does support versioning.
- cratermoon 5y ago
  If I understand correctly: 1, proprietary binary, it's not plain text, can't be diff'd doesn't compress as well as plain text at least. 2. files are stored on Figma's servers and I'm bound to their storage and versioning infrastructure.

kenniskrag 5y ago

on plantuml you can specify if the class should be placed, left, right, top, bottom. That helped me a lot.