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I picked up through my work an Audi E-tron 50. It was a second car, so I wasn't riding everything on it. What surprised me is that I am going to resist ever b

by dm319 5y ago

I picked up through my work an Audi E-tron 50. It was a second car, so I wasn't riding everything on it. What surprised me is that I am going to resist ever buying a car with an ICE now. People complain about range, but the issue is really availability of fast charging points, which will change. The smooth constant acceleration, quiet ride, not needing to visit petrol stations, long service intervals and lack of particles coming out the back has converted me. If I was running a car company, I would not be throwing any R+D at the ICE range. EDIT: Just to add that the reviews didn't really represent to me the car that I got. They largely compared it to performance Teslas, and noted that it was slower, shorter-ranged and less efficient than Teslas. But I think a lot of reviewers miss the point. A fast Tesla (LR models, let alone performance) is so fast it beats my motorbike, which is normally faster than most performance ICE cars. I think the general public haven't quite grokked that yet, so have no idea just how fast 300hp with torque available all the time actually is.

Grim-444 5y ago
My personal counter arguments: "People complain about range, but the issue is really availability of fast charging points, which will change" - so .. you're admitting it's not in the state it needs to be, and you're hoping that changes in the future? I'm moments away from heading out on a backcountry trip in the desert east of the cascades - how long would you estimate it would take for fast charging points to exist even within even a hundred miles of where I'm about to go? I'm also able to just strap on extra gallons of fuel if I want to extend my range even further. "The smooth constant acceleration" - Not really sure how this is a benefit at all, unless you're comparing sports cars. "quiet ride" - I've never once in my life wished that the interior of my vehicle was quieter, this is such a superficial benefit to consider. "not needing to visit petrol stations" - I guess this is a benefit, of course it's offset by needing charging infrastructure both in your house and wherever you go, neither of which exist for me, but what does exist are millions of gas stations which are incredibly convenient to get to and spend 5 minutes at in order to be able to drive hundreds of more miles. There will be a gas station in the tiny towns on my route today, there won't be charging stations, let alone fast charging stations. "long service intervals" - There's some benefit here, although you still have regular maintenance that still has to be done, it doesn't eliminate it. Even still, it's a trivial amount of time to do basic maintenance on my vehicle. "lack of particles coming out the back" - As long as the electricity you power it with didn't come from a dirty source, like most are, sure. In general, if all you use your vehicle for are little trips around the area of a major city, then yeah you can make it work. If you actually use your vehicle as a vehicle, it still doesn't remotely make sense.
- casperb 5y ago
  > "quiet ride" - I've never once in my life wished that the interior of my vehicle was quieter, this is such a superficial benefit to consider. This is for me the single biggest reason I will never go back to an ICE car, after driving a Model X for 4 years now. My wife drives a small petrol car (Renault Clio) and I hate the sound of the engine so much. Do you have experience driving an electric car as a daily? Or just countering all arguments as an exercise?
  - bradlys 5y ago
    Comparing a $100K+ luxury car to a econobox is really not a good point of reference. Compare similarly priced cars.
    - adamcstephens 5y ago
      My 2018 Q5 is extremely quiet. When I drove an etron loaner, I noticed the artificial sound it makes, but it was otherwise quiet as well.
    - casperb 5y ago
      I have the same feeling in a Range Rover. It is not about wind noise, but the sound of a running ICE that annoys me.
- rorykoehler 5y ago
  You can use a petrol generator to charge your car for your super edge case that 99.99999% of us will never have to worry about
  - ghaff 5y ago
    It's very common in non-urban areas of US West such as around huge National Forests to have very limited infrastructure. And it's not 0.00001% of the population that goes to places like that. I suspect that there will be some substantial subset of users and use cases where PHEVs will make sense for a very long time.
goodcanadian 5y ago
The Audi e-Tron CCS implementation is apparently really bad at talking to charge points. Just because it won't work for your car doesn't mean it is broken. The car itself is deficient. Glad you are otherwise happy with the car. I went electric nearly three years ago, and it has been great.
codeulike 5y ago
Yes something about the ev driving experience is very compelling, it's easy to see now that it's the future
reddog 5y ago
One downside -- an Audi Etron starts at about $70,000. At least its a downside if you don't have a lot of extra money laying around. Average cost of used car in the US is about $7000 -- thats what many of us drive. Until us unwashed can get a safe, reliable electric car in that range (and one that I can service myself), the electic car will just remain a rich mans status symbol.
- dm319 5y ago
  Yes, but it's changing rapidly. Our other family car was about $10000 when we got it, I'm not keen to spend too much more. But I'm holding on to when it needs replacing that a second hand electric will closer to this cost than the E-tron.
- antisthenes 5y ago
  All the cost savings in the prices of battery packs seem to be eaten up by marketing departments of companies, and in general seem to never propagate to the end consumer. Tesla's $35,000 car was a lie, but even if it wasn't, for real mass market adoption, it needs to be hitting low-mid $20's range.
  - baumandm 5y ago
    The average price of a new car in the US is now over $40,000[1]. My theory is that the rise of EVs will coincide with a rise in pricing for all vehicles. Instead of EVs getting cheaper, ICE cars will get more expensive. [1] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-now-the-average-price-of-a-new-car-11613683827 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-now-the-average-pr...

by dm319 5y ago

Grim-444 5y ago

My personal counter arguments: "People complain about range, but the issue is really availability of fast charging points, which will change" - so .. you're admitting it's not in the state it needs to be, and you're hoping that changes in the future? I'm moments away from heading out on a backcountry trip in the desert east of the cascades - how long would you estimate it would take for fast charging points to exist even within even a hundred miles of where I'm about to go? I'm also able to just strap on extra gallons of fuel if I want to extend my range even further. "The smooth constant acceleration" - Not really sure how this is a benefit at all, unless you're comparing sports cars. "quiet ride" - I've never once in my life wished that the interior of my vehicle was quieter, this is such a superficial benefit to consider. "not needing to visit petrol stations" - I guess this is a benefit, of course it's offset by needing charging infrastructure both in your house and wherever you go, neither of which exist for me, but what does exist are millions of gas stations which are incredibly convenient to get to and spend 5 minutes at in order to be able to drive hundreds of more miles. There will be a gas station in the tiny towns on my route today, there won't be charging stations, let alone fast charging stations. "long service intervals" - There's some benefit here, although you still have regular maintenance that still has to be done, it doesn't eliminate it. Even still, it's a trivial amount of time to do basic maintenance on my vehicle. "lack of particles coming out the back" - As long as the electricity you power it with didn't come from a dirty source, like most are, sure. In general, if all you use your vehicle for are little trips around the area of a major city, then yeah you can make it work. If you actually use your vehicle as a vehicle, it still doesn't remotely make sense.

casperb 5y ago
> "quiet ride" - I've never once in my life wished that the interior of my vehicle was quieter, this is such a superficial benefit to consider. This is for me the single biggest reason I will never go back to an ICE car, after driving a Model X for 4 years now. My wife drives a small petrol car (Renault Clio) and I hate the sound of the engine so much. Do you have experience driving an electric car as a daily? Or just countering all arguments as an exercise?
- bradlys 5y ago
  Comparing a $100K+ luxury car to a econobox is really not a good point of reference. Compare similarly priced cars.
  - adamcstephens 5y ago
    My 2018 Q5 is extremely quiet. When I drove an etron loaner, I noticed the artificial sound it makes, but it was otherwise quiet as well.
  - casperb 5y ago
    I have the same feeling in a Range Rover. It is not about wind noise, but the sound of a running ICE that annoys me.
rorykoehler 5y ago
You can use a petrol generator to charge your car for your super edge case that 99.99999% of us will never have to worry about
- ghaff 5y ago
  It's very common in non-urban areas of US West such as around huge National Forests to have very limited infrastructure. And it's not 0.00001% of the population that goes to places like that. I suspect that there will be some substantial subset of users and use cases where PHEVs will make sense for a very long time.

goodcanadian 5y ago

The Audi e-Tron CCS implementation is apparently really bad at talking to charge points. Just because it won't work for your car doesn't mean it is broken. The car itself is deficient. Glad you are otherwise happy with the car. I went electric nearly three years ago, and it has been great.

codeulike 5y ago

Yes something about the ev driving experience is very compelling, it's easy to see now that it's the future

reddog 5y ago

One downside -- an Audi Etron starts at about $70,000. At least its a downside if you don't have a lot of extra money laying around. Average cost of used car in the US is about $7000 -- thats what many of us drive. Until us unwashed can get a safe, reliable electric car in that range (and one that I can service myself), the electic car will just remain a rich mans status symbol.

dm319 5y ago
Yes, but it's changing rapidly. Our other family car was about $10000 when we got it, I'm not keen to spend too much more. But I'm holding on to when it needs replacing that a second hand electric will closer to this cost than the E-tron.
antisthenes 5y ago
All the cost savings in the prices of battery packs seem to be eaten up by marketing departments of companies, and in general seem to never propagate to the end consumer. Tesla's $35,000 car was a lie, but even if it wasn't, for real mass market adoption, it needs to be hitting low-mid $20's range.
- baumandm 5y ago
  The average price of a new car in the US is now over $40,000[1]. My theory is that the rise of EVs will coincide with a rise in pricing for all vehicles. Instead of EVs getting cheaper, ICE cars will get more expensive. [1] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-now-the-average-price-of-a-new-car-11613683827 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-now-the-average-pr...