4 ms·

Starting from zero and competing directly with TSMC's top end processes right now is basically being at the "President Kennedy said we're going to the Moon" sta

Starting from zero and competing directly with TSMC's top end processes right now is basically being at the "President Kennedy said we're going to the Moon" stage of landing on the moon. You are going to need many, many billions and billions of dollars and years of engineering and manufacturing (and failures) to get there. This is not something you just turn on the money spigot and solve the problem overnight. It is spectacular engineering at the smallest atomic level to produce in mass quantity the chips from TSMC today.

javajosh 5y ago
The US has an overabundance of brilliant physics PhDs most of which are probably pretty sick of academia's bullshit at this point. Let's give 2000 of them a 100k/year job plus $5B, cheap/free access to federal land, energy, and water, and see what kind of fab(s) they could make. I bet they'd get to TSMC's level pretty quick. If we offered Taiwan a mutual defense pact, we might even get their help to get there.
- an_opabinia 5y ago
  This is the right idea. But like I said, most of the value is in exploiting cheap Chinese labor, not the chips, which is why really none of that would work accounting wise - like you’re talking about a valuable economic enterprise but not one that would produce a lot of profits for shareholders.
- qbasic_forever 5y ago
  They'll turn it down because they can make $250k a year writing code for Facebook/Google/etc. And it's really more talent in process engineering that you need, not in the physics of chip building. We already know what has to be done to make transistors. It's the how to do it at scale and with high enough yield that's impressively difficult.
  - javajosh 5y ago
    Haha. No way. I don't think anyone who gets a physics PhD is excited by the prospect of solving ad market problems. Or financial market problems (because you forgot to mention the $500k quant jobs). Physics PhDs aren't, in my experience, particularly motivated by money. How could they be? A project like this would a) let them use far more of their training than coding ever would and b) it is for a good cause, effectively a peaceful version of the Manhattan project.
    - mikebike 5y ago
      You might want to check the bio of Antonio García Martínez, who has a physics background, and subsequently worked in both finance and adtech.
Ekaros 5y ago
They have spend decades to fine tune the process to be just right. Just money isn't enough, and then we can also look Intel and their 10nm and that is company with experience, history and some workforce in place. Reaching that level from fresh isn't simple thing.

javajosh 5y ago

The US has an overabundance of brilliant physics PhDs most of which are probably pretty sick of academia's bullshit at this point. Let's give 2000 of them a 100k/year job plus $5B, cheap/free access to federal land, energy, and water, and see what kind of fab(s) they could make. I bet they'd get to TSMC's level pretty quick. If we offered Taiwan a mutual defense pact, we might even get their help to get there.

an_opabinia 5y ago
This is the right idea. But like I said, most of the value is in exploiting cheap Chinese labor, not the chips, which is why really none of that would work accounting wise - like you’re talking about a valuable economic enterprise but not one that would produce a lot of profits for shareholders.
qbasic_forever 5y ago
They'll turn it down because they can make $250k a year writing code for Facebook/Google/etc. And it's really more talent in process engineering that you need, not in the physics of chip building. We already know what has to be done to make transistors. It's the how to do it at scale and with high enough yield that's impressively difficult.
- javajosh 5y ago
  Haha. No way. I don't think anyone who gets a physics PhD is excited by the prospect of solving ad market problems. Or financial market problems (because you forgot to mention the $500k quant jobs). Physics PhDs aren't, in my experience, particularly motivated by money. How could they be? A project like this would a) let them use far more of their training than coding ever would and b) it is for a good cause, effectively a peaceful version of the Manhattan project.
  - mikebike 5y ago
    You might want to check the bio of Antonio García Martínez, who has a physics background, and subsequently worked in both finance and adtech.

Ekaros 5y ago

They have spend decades to fine tune the process to be just right. Just money isn't enough, and then we can also look Intel and their 10nm and that is company with experience, history and some workforce in place. Reaching that level from fresh isn't simple thing.