3 ms·

The antiparasitic ivermectin, with antiviral and anti-inflammatory properties That makes me wonder at the mechanism and biological pathways involved in how thi

The antiparasitic ivermectin, with antiviral and anti-inflammatory properties That makes me wonder at the mechanism and biological pathways involved in how this works at all on anything and how that intersects with Covid-19. I'm alive in part because for some years my best friend was a former registered nurse who had let her nursing license lapse while she raised her special-needs sons and pursued training in various alternative medicines to try to keep them alive. I remember asking her once in exasperation after several rounds of back and forth still hadn't really answered my question "Yes, but exactly what does this drug do in the body at the cellular level?" And she told me "You are asking questions for which they don't have answers. That's not how drug studies work." Everything I have read and experienced suggests to me that covid-19 is so deadly largely because of what it does to your blood, not your respiratory system. One of the things that kills people with covid-19 is blood clots. And parasitic infections sometimes infect your blood cells. This is how malaria works and it's why Sickle Cell trait is protective against it. So I'm really wondering at that connection. If this is an antiparasitic, does it work by impacting your blood in a particular way? Could that be the connection here for why it seems effective against covid-19? And I'm wondering if we even have that type of information about this drug nearly twenty years after my friend told me "They don't know that. Drug studies don't answer that." Do we answer those questions these days?

ds206 5y ago
From what I understand, it's the anti-inflammatory piece of Ivermectin that can help with covid because, apparently, the respiratory issue with covid is not caused by covid directly but rather an overexcited autoimmune response. I'm not a doctor but that's what some doctors on YouTube have said ;)
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  Antiinflammatories are generally useful against all kinds of things. Inflammation is a common side effect of infection. I find that answer unsatisfactory. If "it's an anti-inflammatory!" is The Answer, there are lots of antiinflammatories out there.
  - ds206 5y ago
    Here, try this video https://youtu.be/kSWjl-JOIqs https://youtu.be/kSWjl-JOIqs
    - ds206 5y ago
      Sorry, that clip doesn't talk about what I thought it did. I watched the whole 2.5 video before it was censored/taken down from YouTube and somewhere in there they talk about why they think Ivermectin is effective (assuming it is). The full video can be watched here: https://odysee.com/@BretWeinstein:f/COVID-Ivermectin-and-the-Crime-of-the-Century-DarkHorse-Podcast-with-Pierre-Kory-Bret-Weinstein https://odysee.com/@BretWeinstein:f/COVID-Ivermectin-and-the...
  - rolph 5y ago
    ivermectin effects chloride channels in neurons of parasites. in mammals ivermectin effects nuclear transport protiens responsible for mediating signal peptide transport to the nucleus. the in vivo concentration corresponding to EC50 was reported in the range of 2. to 5. micromolar this is a very problematic dose, for humans; this drug targets host, and pathogen, albeit by different mechanisms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_misinformation#Ivermectin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_misinformation#Iverme... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_drug_repurposing_research#Ivermectin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_drug_repurposing_rese...
    - DoreenMichele 5y ago
      ivermectin effects chloride channels in neurons of parasites. in mammals ivermectin effects nuclear transport protiens responsible for mediating signal peptide transport to the nucleus. So that first statement makes some kind of sense to me. That second one doesn't quite parse for me. Can anyone kind of explain that in layman's terms? (Thanks to everyone who has indulged my curiosity. I'm just trying to better understand the piece that most directly answers my question here.)
      - 5y ago
comicjk 5y ago
Some drugs are developed with a particular mechanism in mind: a known protein target, a known binding site, and a molecule designed to match. For these, scientists have a good shot at knowing what's going on. Even then, a doctor might not know - they don't need to. Other drugs are developed by a more random method - for example, take every druglike chemical you have on the shelf and put it in a vial with COVID-19. In that case, scientists will try to find the mechanism afterwards, but they might never know for sure.
jiofih 5y ago
> You are asking questions for which they don't have answers. That's not how drug studies work A doctor or nurse might not now the answer many times, which is fine, you can’t be an expert on all at once. But the latter is bullshit - any reputable drug study will elaborate (or worst case, speculate) on the action mechanism of the drug in detail. In the case of ivermectin, it’s supposed to inhibit viral replication, here is an example of a study diving into it: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016635422...
argvargc 5y ago
You may be interested in this discussion with one of the inventors of mRNA vaccines: https://odysee.com/@BretWeinstein:f/how-to-save-the-world,-in-three-easy:0 https://odysee.com/@BretWeinstein:f/how-to-save-the-world,-i... TL;DW - there is evidence to suggest the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 is itself cytotoxic and potentially responsible for blood-clotting in both COVID-19 patients/vaccinated. (Eg, there was at least one major study published in late 2020 that demonstrated the SC2 spike protein specifically eliciting hyperactivity in blood platelets.)

ds206 5y ago

From what I understand, it's the anti-inflammatory piece of Ivermectin that can help with covid because, apparently, the respiratory issue with covid is not caused by covid directly but rather an overexcited autoimmune response. I'm not a doctor but that's what some doctors on YouTube have said ;)

DoreenMichele 5y ago
Antiinflammatories are generally useful against all kinds of things. Inflammation is a common side effect of infection. I find that answer unsatisfactory. If "it's an anti-inflammatory!" is The Answer, there are lots of antiinflammatories out there.
- ds206 5y ago
  Here, try this video https://youtu.be/kSWjl-JOIqs https://youtu.be/kSWjl-JOIqs
  - ds206 5y ago
    Sorry, that clip doesn't talk about what I thought it did. I watched the whole 2.5 video before it was censored/taken down from YouTube and somewhere in there they talk about why they think Ivermectin is effective (assuming it is). The full video can be watched here: https://odysee.com/@BretWeinstein:f/COVID-Ivermectin-and-the-Crime-of-the-Century-DarkHorse-Podcast-with-Pierre-Kory-Bret-Weinstein https://odysee.com/@BretWeinstein:f/COVID-Ivermectin-and-the...
- rolph 5y ago
  ivermectin effects chloride channels in neurons of parasites. in mammals ivermectin effects nuclear transport protiens responsible for mediating signal peptide transport to the nucleus. the in vivo concentration corresponding to EC50 was reported in the range of 2. to 5. micromolar this is a very problematic dose, for humans; this drug targets host, and pathogen, albeit by different mechanisms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_misinformation#Ivermectin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_misinformation#Iverme... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_drug_repurposing_research#Ivermectin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_drug_repurposing_rese...
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    ivermectin effects chloride channels in neurons of parasites. in mammals ivermectin effects nuclear transport protiens responsible for mediating signal peptide transport to the nucleus. So that first statement makes some kind of sense to me. That second one doesn't quite parse for me. Can anyone kind of explain that in layman's terms? (Thanks to everyone who has indulged my curiosity. I'm just trying to better understand the piece that most directly answers my question here.)
    - 5y ago

comicjk 5y ago

Some drugs are developed with a particular mechanism in mind: a known protein target, a known binding site, and a molecule designed to match. For these, scientists have a good shot at knowing what's going on. Even then, a doctor might not know - they don't need to. Other drugs are developed by a more random method - for example, take every druglike chemical you have on the shelf and put it in a vial with COVID-19. In that case, scientists will try to find the mechanism afterwards, but they might never know for sure.

jiofih 5y ago

> You are asking questions for which they don't have answers. That's not how drug studies work A doctor or nurse might not now the answer many times, which is fine, you can’t be an expert on all at once. But the latter is bullshit - any reputable drug study will elaborate (or worst case, speculate) on the action mechanism of the drug in detail. In the case of ivermectin, it’s supposed to inhibit viral replication, here is an example of a study diving into it: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016635422...

argvargc 5y ago

You may be interested in this discussion with one of the inventors of mRNA vaccines: https://odysee.com/@BretWeinstein:f/how-to-save-the-world,-in-three-easy:0 https://odysee.com/@BretWeinstein:f/how-to-save-the-world,-i... TL;DW - there is evidence to suggest the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 is itself cytotoxic and potentially responsible for blood-clotting in both COVID-19 patients/vaccinated. (Eg, there was at least one major study published in late 2020 that demonstrated the SC2 spike protein specifically eliciting hyperactivity in blood platelets.)