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> Just the concept of “jaywalking” as a punishable offense is revolting to me. It's a required compromise to allow pedestrians and high-speed automobile traffi

> Just the concept of “jaywalking” as a punishable offense is revolting to me. It's a required compromise to allow pedestrians and high-speed automobile traffic to coexist. This unfairly-dead comment has a good discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27561530 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27561530 Get rid of it, and you'll either have more pedestrians getting run over (e.g. some distracted guy on his cell phone accidentially rushing out in front of some car, getting killed in the process and traumatizing some driver) or you'll have to lower speed limits, which would make longer-distance travel more inefficient and inconvenient.

dotancohen 5y ago
Just a note for those unfamiliar with the concept of dead posts: To read that post you need to enable "showdead" or something with a similar name in your profile page.
lozenge 5y ago
I always thought it was my desire to live that keeps me from walking into traffic despite any "distractions", but now I learn from you it was the threat of a $250 fine all along.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > I always thought it was my desire to live that keeps me from walking into traffic despite any "distractions", but now I learn from you it was the threat of a $250 fine all along. Actually, I don't think it's so much the fine itself but the sense that not crossing at a crosswalk is "wrong." The the laws against the behavior (and the penalties necessary for such a law) are there mainly to create that understanding. Of course self-preservation is also a factor, but I'd wager the behavior is more effectively inhibited when it's not the only factor.
  - michaelmrose 5y ago
    In New York city in recent years it was found that most jay walking tickets were handed out to minorities. Either white people are more intrinsically motivated or jay walking laws aren't the primary or even a substantial factor in pedestrian accidents. Do you have a reason beyond your gut to believe jaywalking penalties work?
- dasudasu 5y ago
  It also determines who is in the wrong. Cars normally have to yield to pedestrians and are usually presumed at fault if they hit one. The fine is just an extension of formalizing who has the right of way.
rdiddly 5y ago
"Distracted walking" is pretty well discredited as a deadly scourge to society. Also, walking is travel, and restricting walking already makes travel more inefficient and inconvenient. So I'm gonna go with lowering speed limits.
Swenrekcah 5y ago
> e.g. some distracted guy on his cell phone accidentially rushing out in front of some car, getting killed in the process and traumatizing some driver I think this comment demonstrates the perverse value system I’m commenting against. I don’t mean this as an insult to you, merely to point out how people have been programmed to think people shouldn’t be able to live in a city without being terrified of their lives so we don’t mildly annoy drivers. The scenario that would actually be likely to happen is the exact opposite. A distracted driver running over and killing a pedestrian that’s crossing on a green light or a zebra crossing. That happens very regularly. Cars have no business driving faster than 15-20mph on a city steet.
- geoduck14 5y ago
  > Cars have no business driving faster than 15-20mph on a city steet. Where do you live where you think it is reasonable to set a speed limit below 35 mph?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - ryukafalz 5y ago
    Not GP but I live in Philly, a very dense walkable city. It is absolutely reasonable to set a speed limit below 35 mph on most of our streets. Especially in residential neighborhoods, but honestly ideally pretty much everywhere in Center City and a good distance away from there too. EDIT: And in fact most of the residential streets here are 25 mph, and I think only that high because it's the minimum posted speed limit in the state of Pennsylvania. (I'd like to see that lowered personally, and more importantly some traffic calming that's actually effective.)
  - zzzeek 5y ago
    The default speed limit throughout all of Manhattan is 25 mph.
  - crooked-v 5y ago
    91% of the streets in Portland have a speed limit of 30 mph or less.
Agentlien 5y ago
How is it required? In Sweden jaywalking as a crime does not exist and vehicles are required to give way to pedestrians crossing the street. The problems you describe seem absent from my experience living all my life in Sweden's second largest city with plenty of pedestrians and motor vehicles crossing the same streets.
hef19898 5y ago
A country without a general speed limit, and home to a couple of companies manufacturing fast cars, begs to differ. But then getting a driver's license here takes real education and practice.

dotancohen 5y ago

Just a note for those unfamiliar with the concept of dead posts: To read that post you need to enable "showdead" or something with a similar name in your profile page.

lozenge 5y ago

I always thought it was my desire to live that keeps me from walking into traffic despite any "distractions", but now I learn from you it was the threat of a $250 fine all along.

tablespoon 5y ago
> I always thought it was my desire to live that keeps me from walking into traffic despite any "distractions", but now I learn from you it was the threat of a $250 fine all along. Actually, I don't think it's so much the fine itself but the sense that not crossing at a crosswalk is "wrong." The the laws against the behavior (and the penalties necessary for such a law) are there mainly to create that understanding. Of course self-preservation is also a factor, but I'd wager the behavior is more effectively inhibited when it's not the only factor.
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  In New York city in recent years it was found that most jay walking tickets were handed out to minorities. Either white people are more intrinsically motivated or jay walking laws aren't the primary or even a substantial factor in pedestrian accidents. Do you have a reason beyond your gut to believe jaywalking penalties work?
dasudasu 5y ago
It also determines who is in the wrong. Cars normally have to yield to pedestrians and are usually presumed at fault if they hit one. The fine is just an extension of formalizing who has the right of way.

rdiddly 5y ago

"Distracted walking" is pretty well discredited as a deadly scourge to society. Also, walking is travel, and restricting walking already makes travel more inefficient and inconvenient. So I'm gonna go with lowering speed limits.

Swenrekcah 5y ago

> e.g. some distracted guy on his cell phone accidentially rushing out in front of some car, getting killed in the process and traumatizing some driver I think this comment demonstrates the perverse value system I’m commenting against. I don’t mean this as an insult to you, merely to point out how people have been programmed to think people shouldn’t be able to live in a city without being terrified of their lives so we don’t mildly annoy drivers. The scenario that would actually be likely to happen is the exact opposite. A distracted driver running over and killing a pedestrian that’s crossing on a green light or a zebra crossing. That happens very regularly. Cars have no business driving faster than 15-20mph on a city steet.

geoduck14 5y ago
> Cars have no business driving faster than 15-20mph on a city steet. Where do you live where you think it is reasonable to set a speed limit below 35 mph?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ryukafalz 5y ago
  Not GP but I live in Philly, a very dense walkable city. It is absolutely reasonable to set a speed limit below 35 mph on most of our streets. Especially in residential neighborhoods, but honestly ideally pretty much everywhere in Center City and a good distance away from there too. EDIT: And in fact most of the residential streets here are 25 mph, and I think only that high because it's the minimum posted speed limit in the state of Pennsylvania. (I'd like to see that lowered personally, and more importantly some traffic calming that's actually effective.)
- zzzeek 5y ago
  The default speed limit throughout all of Manhattan is 25 mph.
- crooked-v 5y ago
  91% of the streets in Portland have a speed limit of 30 mph or less.

Agentlien 5y ago

How is it required? In Sweden jaywalking as a crime does not exist and vehicles are required to give way to pedestrians crossing the street. The problems you describe seem absent from my experience living all my life in Sweden's second largest city with plenty of pedestrians and motor vehicles crossing the same streets.

hef19898 5y ago

A country without a general speed limit, and home to a couple of companies manufacturing fast cars, begs to differ. But then getting a driver's license here takes real education and practice.