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Slavoj Zizek noted the importance of his film in “The Pervert’s Guide to Cinema.” I highly recommend the film and “The Pervert’s Guide to Ideology” as an explan

Slavoj Zizek noted the importance of his film in “The Pervert’s Guide to Cinema.” I highly recommend the film and “The Pervert’s Guide to Ideology” as an explanation of our current world systems.

slibhb 5y ago
Zizek is a performer. There's not a lot of substance in his many (is he at 100 yet?) books. It's blather and bad jokes interspersed with paeans to violence. It's ironic that someone who rails against capitalism publishes at such a frenetic rate while covering the same ground. I'd call it intellectual consumerism. The article is also weak. They Live works because it's so stripped down, almost a fable. But as a serious look at modernity, there's not much there. The idea that "the rich are aliens" is creepy. It mainly serves to make their murder morally permissible.
- FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
  The Black Mirror episode "Men Against Fire", again with glasses that turn people into monsters, is a good counterpoint. In the one, the monsters are the truth; in the other, the monsters are the lie.
- ianleeclark 5y ago
  > Zizek is a performer. Most definitely and I think he'd agree. > There's not a lot of substance in his many (is he at 100 yet?) books. Which books specifically of his are you speaking about? > It's ironic that someone who rails against capitalism publishes at such a frenetic rate while covering the same ground. He himself has said that he makes a good slave, he just needs to know who his master is.
  - slibhb 5y ago
    > Which books specifically of his are you speaking about? How many of his ~70 books am I required to read before forming an opinion? I've read one and a half, the one being one of his "philosophical" books and the half being a more accessible political one. I'm confident that no one who has anyhting to say writes like that. Give me Chomsky, give me Butler, give me Rorty. I don't have to agree to appreciate a thinker but I have to be convinced there's thinking going on. > He himself has said that he makes a good slave, he just needs to know who his master is. This clowning bullshit is a good reason not to take him seriously. Bad jokes are perhaps Zizek's greatest sin. I can forgive anyone almost anything if they're funny. But no, it's dud after dud.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - ianleeclark 5y ago
      > How many of his ~70 books am I required to read before forming an opinion? I like to follow the rule that I only talk about things which I know about. I think it's a pretty good rule. So I personally wouldn't talk about an entire person's collection from such a limited introduction because it would feel a tad bit hasty to me. Instead, I would talk about the works that I had read--this might prove difficult if you can't recall the names. > This clowning bullshit is a good reason not to take him seriously. It's a dad-joke that he told at a talk. Heaven forbid the man try and add some levity to situations.
      - slibhb 5y ago
        So I need to read all ~30,000 pages of Zizek before forming an opinion. Or at least a negative opinion. Wonderful system you've developed. > It's a dad-joke that he told at a talk. Heaven forbid the man try and add some levity to situations. It's not funny. Anyway, like I said, it's a performance. The fact that you (and he) would agree with that judgement doesn't make it any less damning. I watched part of a lecture he did on youtube. Absolutely unwatchable. If he has a point he's unable to communicate it. But the real point is mystifying the audience, creating the impression that they're witnessing a genius thinking out loud, and the terrible jokes don't help. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHP1OwivAL0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHP1OwivAL0 if anyone is "interested". Notice Avital Ronell (sex offender and NYU professor) introducing him. It's bizarre how Zizek bullies her through the starting of the lecture while playing it off as a joke between friends.
        Fargren 5y ago
        > So I need to read all ~30,000 pages of Zizek before forming an opinion. Or at least a negative opinion. Wonderful system you've developed. You can do whatever you want. But commenting on the entire bibliography when you have read less than 2.5% of it seems premature. Just say that everything you've read of him lacks substance rather than everything he wrote?
- Barrin92 5y ago
  If you think there isn't a lot of substance I don't think you've actually read any of his stuff. Sublime Object of Ideology and his work on Lacan in general are well-respected. There's not a lot of nonsense in his theoretical work at all. When he engages the public, or whatever you find on youtube which is what I suspect you've seen of him based on your impression, he does indeed joke around a lot. But this has to do with his inherent distaste for 'preaching'. He's no fan of climbing on a pedestal and pretending to speak from a position of authority, he's said himself he's always considered that authoritarian.
  - slibhb 5y ago
    > Sublime Object of Ideology and his work on Lacan in general are well-respected. There's not a lot of nonsense in his theoretical work at all. Well respected by some and not others. Lacan as a philosopher has boosters and detractors...much like Zizek (and every other philosopher). I'm with the detractors. I've read 1.5 of his books (not the one you mentioned) and I tried to watch an academic lecture on youtube. I've read various secondary sources (which are mostly highly critical and I found convincing). Your argument comes down to "anyone who doesn't think highly of Zizek is dumb/hasn't read him/doesn't understand him". It's so low effort. > When he engages the public, or whatever you find on youtube which is what I suspect you've seen of him based on your impression, he does indeed joke around a lot. But this has to do with his inherent distaste for 'preaching'. I have no problem with intellectuals making jokes. Zizek isn't funny. > But this has to do with his inherent distaste for 'preaching'. He's no fan of climbing on a pedestal and pretending to speak from a position of authority, he's said himself he's always considered that authoritarian. Most people who "don't like to preach" end up, you know, not preaching.
    - sammalloy 5y ago
      Zizek has always struck me as the Deepak Chopra of philosophy.
- jessaustin 5y ago
  The idea that "the rich are aliens" is creepy. It mainly serves to make their murder morally permissible. One hopes you can muster this ardent sympathy for the millions of people killed in wars that the rich started and by healthcare deficiencies that the rich have arranged over the last several decades.
  - slibhb 5y ago
    One would hope that you could come up with a better theory than "the problem with the world is rich people" but one would be wrong, apparently. Rich people are, in fact, human. They are drawn from the general population.
    - Khaine 5y ago
      Ummm, isn’t that literally what marxists and communists believe? That the proletariat must rise up and overthrow the bourgeois
      - slibhb 5y ago
        Some of them believe that but it's not a Marxian belief. Marx's argument is "structural". The contradictions of a capitalist economy and society are the problem. The bourgeois are a symptom of that, not the cause. Killing all the bourgeois wouldn't solve the problem in itself, a radical restructuring of society is required.
        jessaustin 5y ago
        That which is necessary is not always sufficient.
    - SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
      Well yeah, they're human, that doesn't mean they're incapable of inflicting widespread suffering. It ain't poor people buying politicians, starting wars and pushing propaganda though the media.
CyberRabbi 5y ago
For the mind of the average consumer, whose worldview has nearly been entirely shaped by the ideas presented in Hollywood movies, yes the narrative that Zizek presents through those same Hollywood movies can be entertaining and inspire a sense of understanding.

slibhb 5y ago

Zizek is a performer. There's not a lot of substance in his many (is he at 100 yet?) books. It's blather and bad jokes interspersed with paeans to violence. It's ironic that someone who rails against capitalism publishes at such a frenetic rate while covering the same ground. I'd call it intellectual consumerism. The article is also weak. They Live works because it's so stripped down, almost a fable. But as a serious look at modernity, there's not much there. The idea that "the rich are aliens" is creepy. It mainly serves to make their murder morally permissible.

FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
The Black Mirror episode "Men Against Fire", again with glasses that turn people into monsters, is a good counterpoint. In the one, the monsters are the truth; in the other, the monsters are the lie.
ianleeclark 5y ago
> Zizek is a performer. Most definitely and I think he'd agree. > There's not a lot of substance in his many (is he at 100 yet?) books. Which books specifically of his are you speaking about? > It's ironic that someone who rails against capitalism publishes at such a frenetic rate while covering the same ground. He himself has said that he makes a good slave, he just needs to know who his master is.
- slibhb 5y ago
  > Which books specifically of his are you speaking about? How many of his ~70 books am I required to read before forming an opinion? I've read one and a half, the one being one of his "philosophical" books and the half being a more accessible political one. I'm confident that no one who has anyhting to say writes like that. Give me Chomsky, give me Butler, give me Rorty. I don't have to agree to appreciate a thinker but I have to be convinced there's thinking going on. > He himself has said that he makes a good slave, he just needs to know who his master is. This clowning bullshit is a good reason not to take him seriously. Bad jokes are perhaps Zizek's greatest sin. I can forgive anyone almost anything if they're funny. But no, it's dud after dud.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - ianleeclark 5y ago
    > How many of his ~70 books am I required to read before forming an opinion? I like to follow the rule that I only talk about things which I know about. I think it's a pretty good rule. So I personally wouldn't talk about an entire person's collection from such a limited introduction because it would feel a tad bit hasty to me. Instead, I would talk about the works that I had read--this might prove difficult if you can't recall the names. > This clowning bullshit is a good reason not to take him seriously. It's a dad-joke that he told at a talk. Heaven forbid the man try and add some levity to situations.
    - slibhb 5y ago
      So I need to read all ~30,000 pages of Zizek before forming an opinion. Or at least a negative opinion. Wonderful system you've developed. > It's a dad-joke that he told at a talk. Heaven forbid the man try and add some levity to situations. It's not funny. Anyway, like I said, it's a performance. The fact that you (and he) would agree with that judgement doesn't make it any less damning. I watched part of a lecture he did on youtube. Absolutely unwatchable. If he has a point he's unable to communicate it. But the real point is mystifying the audience, creating the impression that they're witnessing a genius thinking out loud, and the terrible jokes don't help. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHP1OwivAL0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHP1OwivAL0 if anyone is "interested". Notice Avital Ronell (sex offender and NYU professor) introducing him. It's bizarre how Zizek bullies her through the starting of the lecture while playing it off as a joke between friends.
      - Fargren 5y ago
        > So I need to read all ~30,000 pages of Zizek before forming an opinion. Or at least a negative opinion. Wonderful system you've developed. You can do whatever you want. But commenting on the entire bibliography when you have read less than 2.5% of it seems premature. Just say that everything you've read of him lacks substance rather than everything he wrote?
Barrin92 5y ago
If you think there isn't a lot of substance I don't think you've actually read any of his stuff. Sublime Object of Ideology and his work on Lacan in general are well-respected. There's not a lot of nonsense in his theoretical work at all. When he engages the public, or whatever you find on youtube which is what I suspect you've seen of him based on your impression, he does indeed joke around a lot. But this has to do with his inherent distaste for 'preaching'. He's no fan of climbing on a pedestal and pretending to speak from a position of authority, he's said himself he's always considered that authoritarian.
- slibhb 5y ago
  > Sublime Object of Ideology and his work on Lacan in general are well-respected. There's not a lot of nonsense in his theoretical work at all. Well respected by some and not others. Lacan as a philosopher has boosters and detractors...much like Zizek (and every other philosopher). I'm with the detractors. I've read 1.5 of his books (not the one you mentioned) and I tried to watch an academic lecture on youtube. I've read various secondary sources (which are mostly highly critical and I found convincing). Your argument comes down to "anyone who doesn't think highly of Zizek is dumb/hasn't read him/doesn't understand him". It's so low effort. > When he engages the public, or whatever you find on youtube which is what I suspect you've seen of him based on your impression, he does indeed joke around a lot. But this has to do with his inherent distaste for 'preaching'. I have no problem with intellectuals making jokes. Zizek isn't funny. > But this has to do with his inherent distaste for 'preaching'. He's no fan of climbing on a pedestal and pretending to speak from a position of authority, he's said himself he's always considered that authoritarian. Most people who "don't like to preach" end up, you know, not preaching.
  - sammalloy 5y ago
    Zizek has always struck me as the Deepak Chopra of philosophy.
jessaustin 5y ago
The idea that "the rich are aliens" is creepy. It mainly serves to make their murder morally permissible. One hopes you can muster this ardent sympathy for the millions of people killed in wars that the rich started and by healthcare deficiencies that the rich have arranged over the last several decades.
- slibhb 5y ago
  One would hope that you could come up with a better theory than "the problem with the world is rich people" but one would be wrong, apparently. Rich people are, in fact, human. They are drawn from the general population.
  - Khaine 5y ago
    Ummm, isn’t that literally what marxists and communists believe? That the proletariat must rise up and overthrow the bourgeois
    - slibhb 5y ago
      Some of them believe that but it's not a Marxian belief. Marx's argument is "structural". The contradictions of a capitalist economy and society are the problem. The bourgeois are a symptom of that, not the cause. Killing all the bourgeois wouldn't solve the problem in itself, a radical restructuring of society is required.
      - jessaustin 5y ago
        That which is necessary is not always sufficient.
  - SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
    Well yeah, they're human, that doesn't mean they're incapable of inflicting widespread suffering. It ain't poor people buying politicians, starting wars and pushing propaganda though the media.

CyberRabbi 5y ago

For the mind of the average consumer, whose worldview has nearly been entirely shaped by the ideas presented in Hollywood movies, yes the narrative that Zizek presents through those same Hollywood movies can be entertaining and inspire a sense of understanding.