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Aannoying how hard it is to compare. So for online payments: OLD: 2.90% + $0.30 NEW: 3.49% + $0.49 It seems like some in-store payments might be sligh

Aannoying how hard it is to compare. So for online payments: OLD: 2.90% + $0.30 NEW: 3.49% + $0.49 It seems like some in-store payments might be slightly cheaper, but I don't want to misread anything. It's funny that they benchmark their in-store numbers vs Square, but decline to benchmark anything else. Their "new" online fee is now higher than Stripe, whereas before it was identical (Stripe is 2.9% + $0.30) https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/merchant-fees https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/merchant-fees The "Why are we making this change?" section never answers the question, of course.

kerng 5y ago
I think it's part of a general price increase we have/will shortly see everywhere. Although I'm expecting it in many areas, it's still crazy how steep the rise is.
- gruez 5y ago
  You mean because of inflation? That wouldn't explain why the % part of the fee is increasing.
  - an_opabinia 5y ago
    Yeah, the poster doesn't know what they're talking about. Also, App Store-like fees have been declining in the last two years.
  - weird-eye-issue 5y ago
    How did you arrive at that conclusion?
    - gruez 5y ago
      The "inflation" bit, or the "percentage shouldn't go" up bit?
      - weird-eye-issue 5y ago
        Their costs don't necessarily have to go up linearly. So it isn't a given that they don't need to increase the percent. That would only happen in a perfect world.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    The % part is probably rising because of the increase in credit card rewards. 2% cash back on everything, 4-5% on travel and restaurants and groceries… all paid for by increasing interchange fees. The Visa Signature, Visa Infinite, and MasterCard World Elite cards have approached Amex in fees. Fixed-rate processors like PayPal and Stripe are getting squeezed here.
  - bostonsre 5y ago
    Shouldn't inflation cause money to have less buying power which would mean prices increase? If so, PayPal wouldn't need to change their percentage to adjust for inflation.
    - BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
      Indeed, charging a percent fee on every transaction is inflation proof. I could see the flat rate going up due to inflation but to increase both looks like PayPal is just being greedy.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - kerng 5y ago
    Everyone will try via various means to get a piece of the multi trillion dollar pie the US is creating.
tyingq 5y ago
That's not quite the whole story. The new 3.49% is when you choose "old school pay with Paypal". For online: If you use it like Stripe, to take a credit card payment (where the end user doesn't know you're using Paypal), their rates are lower than Stripe. 2.59%+$0.49 (Paypal) vs 2.9%+$0.30 (Stripe). For in-person, as a "normal" credit card reader: 2.29% + $0.09. Ignoring in-person old school Paypal, as I don't believe anyone really uses that. Though, for in-person, I would guess a regular old merchant account would be a better idea than Paypal, Square, or Stripe. So many transactions are debit cards, which are dirt cheap if you just use a a normal merchant account. Way cheaper than Stripe, Paypal, Square, etc.
- nickjj 5y ago
  > The new 3.49% is when you choose "old school pay with Paypal". I don't think this is really old school. This is how most folks use PayPal. I accept a decent amount of transactions online and I have about a 50 / 50 split between folks paying with Stripe and PayPal. The people who want to use PayPal are using it with the new 3.49% rates method because this is the one where they enter in their PayPal email address to make a payment. Literally 100% of the PayPal transactions I've accepted over the last 3 years are categorized as "PayPal checkout" which is hit by the new rate moving forward. This is a direct price increase by PayPal for almost everyone accepting payments online through PayPal. From 2.9% + 30c to 3.49% + 49c. It makes them substantially more expensive than Stripe because everyone who pays with PayPal is using their email address not a credit card. It's no longer a no brainer decision to support both on your site back when the rates were the same as Stripe.
  - tyingq 5y ago
    Sure. But, if you're comparing to Stripe I think it's fair to show the fee differences for straight credit card payments.
    - nickjj 5y ago
      > But, if you're comparing to Stripe I think it's fair to show the fee differences for straight credit card payments. The only thing that matters is the bottom line for end customers. They either pay by credit card or PayPal (I know there's Apple Pay and crypto too, but let's ignore those for now). If the customer uses a credit card they don't care if Stripe or PayPal processes it. They just want to enter in their credit card and be done with it. Most businesses will be using Stripe's credit card forms for that because it lets you embed the form into their page so the customer doesn't need to leave. Stripe's API is also a billion times better than PayPal's so I can't imagine anyone will realistically want to use PayPal's API directly to embed a credit / debit form (assuming this is even an option). However when folks want to pay using PayPal, there is only 1 option of using PayPal with their associated email address. There's no escaping this price increase short of dropping all support for PayPal, which is going to be a very big net loss from loss of sales from anyone who doesn't have a credit or debit card. So yes, this is a direct price increase to continue using PayPal and it's unrelated to Stripe also supporting credit cards.
U8dcN7vx 5y ago
The newsroom piece says why, it seems to me: "to better align our pricing with the value that our products and services provide.", aka because we want to make more money and we have sufficient leverage.

kerng 5y ago

I think it's part of a general price increase we have/will shortly see everywhere. Although I'm expecting it in many areas, it's still crazy how steep the rise is.

gruez 5y ago
You mean because of inflation? That wouldn't explain why the % part of the fee is increasing.
- an_opabinia 5y ago
  Yeah, the poster doesn't know what they're talking about. Also, App Store-like fees have been declining in the last two years.
- weird-eye-issue 5y ago
  How did you arrive at that conclusion?
  - gruez 5y ago
    The "inflation" bit, or the "percentage shouldn't go" up bit?
    - weird-eye-issue 5y ago
      Their costs don't necessarily have to go up linearly. So it isn't a given that they don't need to increase the percent. That would only happen in a perfect world.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  The % part is probably rising because of the increase in credit card rewards. 2% cash back on everything, 4-5% on travel and restaurants and groceries… all paid for by increasing interchange fees. The Visa Signature, Visa Infinite, and MasterCard World Elite cards have approached Amex in fees. Fixed-rate processors like PayPal and Stripe are getting squeezed here.
- bostonsre 5y ago
  Shouldn't inflation cause money to have less buying power which would mean prices increase? If so, PayPal wouldn't need to change their percentage to adjust for inflation.
  - BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
    Indeed, charging a percent fee on every transaction is inflation proof. I could see the flat rate going up due to inflation but to increase both looks like PayPal is just being greedy.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- kerng 5y ago
  Everyone will try via various means to get a piece of the multi trillion dollar pie the US is creating.

tyingq 5y ago

That's not quite the whole story. The new 3.49% is when you choose "old school pay with Paypal". For online: If you use it like Stripe, to take a credit card payment (where the end user doesn't know you're using Paypal), their rates are lower than Stripe. 2.59%+$0.49 (Paypal) vs 2.9%+$0.30 (Stripe). For in-person, as a "normal" credit card reader: 2.29% + $0.09. Ignoring in-person old school Paypal, as I don't believe anyone really uses that. Though, for in-person, I would guess a regular old merchant account would be a better idea than Paypal, Square, or Stripe. So many transactions are debit cards, which are dirt cheap if you just use a a normal merchant account. Way cheaper than Stripe, Paypal, Square, etc.

nickjj 5y ago
> The new 3.49% is when you choose "old school pay with Paypal". I don't think this is really old school. This is how most folks use PayPal. I accept a decent amount of transactions online and I have about a 50 / 50 split between folks paying with Stripe and PayPal. The people who want to use PayPal are using it with the new 3.49% rates method because this is the one where they enter in their PayPal email address to make a payment. Literally 100% of the PayPal transactions I've accepted over the last 3 years are categorized as "PayPal checkout" which is hit by the new rate moving forward. This is a direct price increase by PayPal for almost everyone accepting payments online through PayPal. From 2.9% + 30c to 3.49% + 49c. It makes them substantially more expensive than Stripe because everyone who pays with PayPal is using their email address not a credit card. It's no longer a no brainer decision to support both on your site back when the rates were the same as Stripe.
- tyingq 5y ago
  Sure. But, if you're comparing to Stripe I think it's fair to show the fee differences for straight credit card payments.
  - nickjj 5y ago
    > But, if you're comparing to Stripe I think it's fair to show the fee differences for straight credit card payments. The only thing that matters is the bottom line for end customers. They either pay by credit card or PayPal (I know there's Apple Pay and crypto too, but let's ignore those for now). If the customer uses a credit card they don't care if Stripe or PayPal processes it. They just want to enter in their credit card and be done with it. Most businesses will be using Stripe's credit card forms for that because it lets you embed the form into their page so the customer doesn't need to leave. Stripe's API is also a billion times better than PayPal's so I can't imagine anyone will realistically want to use PayPal's API directly to embed a credit / debit form (assuming this is even an option). However when folks want to pay using PayPal, there is only 1 option of using PayPal with their associated email address. There's no escaping this price increase short of dropping all support for PayPal, which is going to be a very big net loss from loss of sales from anyone who doesn't have a credit or debit card. So yes, this is a direct price increase to continue using PayPal and it's unrelated to Stripe also supporting credit cards.

U8dcN7vx 5y ago

The newsroom piece says why, it seems to me: "to better align our pricing with the value that our products and services provide.", aka because we want to make more money and we have sufficient leverage.