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Edit: Surely we can come up with a more approachable explanation for less technical folks, though? Here's an attempt: "Contact tracing respects your privacy an

Edit: Surely we can come up with a more approachable explanation for less technical folks, though? Here's an attempt: "Contact tracing respects your privacy and does not send your location to the cloud. Instead, your phone makes up a new random name every 15 minutes and broadcasts it to nearby phones. It remembers the last two weeks of names it used, as well as the last two weeks of names it heard from other phones. When someone catches COVID-19, they register it in the app. Their phone then uploads the last two weeks' worth of names it used to the cloud, where other phones can download the data. The names aren't connected to their identity, all they represent is someone who caught COVID-19. If your phone finds a match between a name it has recently heard and the online database, it sends you a notification. After 2 weeks the data is erased, so you are only notified if you were near an infected person in the past 2 weeks. Since the random names change every 15 minutes, nobody can track you or know that you are the same person as last time they saw your phone. The data is only stored locally, so after it is deleted two weeks later, there is no way to go back and recover it." How's that? (Edited because without the intro sentence it sounded like I was trying to imply the parent didn't get it; that wasn't my intent.

thinkingemote 5y ago
Ahh apologies. It's not the wording of your paragraph, I understood both very well, they are well written. It's a more fundamental understanding of stuff that's hard by those who are most at risk. The old, the vulnerable etc. It's the old digital divide idea. My neighbor doesn't have any internet connected devices, for example. But she would benefit much more from the app than 40 of her mask wearing, young, self isolating, working from home fellow city inhabitants.
- marcan_42 5y ago
  I didn't want to imply you didn't understand it; I was trying to come up with a more accessible explanation that might help others do so and help drive adoption. You're right that it's not easy to explain, but surely we can come up with something that gets the idea across? :)
bonoboTP 5y ago
Still too complicated. I saw a comic version once, working through an actual example with some example IDs and it used phrases like "sends to the hospital" or "asks the hospital" etc. instead of downloading from the cloud. Very non-technical people are not familiar with the basic concepts involved. "Makes up a new random name and broadcasts it to nearby phones" is something they'd struggle with if they never heard or thought about random number generators, don't understand Bluetooth etc. Also don't underestimate learned helplessness. Many will stop reading if it looks technical because they "can't understand that sort of thing. " Many such people never ever read such lengthy step by step technical documentation. It seems to them as a quantum physics experimental setup description sounds to the average programmer.
- kortex 5y ago
  > Also don't underestimate learned helplessness. Learned helplessness is so real. My partner works at a help desk, and I constantly hear stories of older folks just mentally shutting down as soon as she has them open the start menu or a settings menu. I even see it in myself, a super curious neophile software/hardware hacker. Sometimes I'll come across some particularly arcane API docs and it's like my brain just goes "tl;dr" to the whole thing and tries to immediately find a way to avoid interfacing with it. That mental switch of "ah this is overwhelming, eyes glaze over" is all too easy to trip, even if you push through it and it really is not that bad after the fact.
  - bonoboTP 5y ago
    It's also an ego-threatening thing. Often the older folks or otherwise nontechnical people are socially higher status and being lectured about something that they may not understand sounds dangerous to them or they take it as being challenged by them, especially if the person explaining it is lower social status, younger, "just a kid" etc. It's easier for them to just refuse to participate and dismiss the topic as irrelevant, than to take up the game and then perhaps be seen as "dumb". And this state of affairs is actually quite unnatural. The natural course of things over the millennia was that older people are more experienced and can give direction and advice to the young ones. Sure, this is still true in some "soft" topics, but the generational gap in understanding how the modern world works has never been so large.
twoknee 5y ago
I prefer token over name, otherwise I think it's decent. Here's my crack at it for fun: Exposure Notification apps are a privacy preserving technology to help prevent the spread of COVID-19. They don't collect or log any location data which is what makes them private. Instead, a phone equipped with the app will continuously log and broadcast random tokens that change every 15 minutes. Nearby phones with the app will take note of the token and the signal strength, while broadcasting a token of their own. Each day the app downloads a public list of tokens that have been shared by people who have tested positive for COVID-19. If your phone has been around a number of these tokens, it will notify you to get tested and self-isolate. If you test positive for COVID-19 yourself, your doctor will give you a key to enter into the app. Entering the key will upload your tokens to the public list. While exposure notification apps do preserve privacy, they are limited in effectiveness without widespread adoption. Additionally they are not a suitable replacement for traditional contact tracing.

thinkingemote 5y ago

Ahh apologies. It's not the wording of your paragraph, I understood both very well, they are well written. It's a more fundamental understanding of stuff that's hard by those who are most at risk. The old, the vulnerable etc. It's the old digital divide idea. My neighbor doesn't have any internet connected devices, for example. But she would benefit much more from the app than 40 of her mask wearing, young, self isolating, working from home fellow city inhabitants.

marcan_42 5y ago
I didn't want to imply you didn't understand it; I was trying to come up with a more accessible explanation that might help others do so and help drive adoption. You're right that it's not easy to explain, but surely we can come up with something that gets the idea across? :)

bonoboTP 5y ago

Still too complicated. I saw a comic version once, working through an actual example with some example IDs and it used phrases like "sends to the hospital" or "asks the hospital" etc. instead of downloading from the cloud. Very non-technical people are not familiar with the basic concepts involved. "Makes up a new random name and broadcasts it to nearby phones" is something they'd struggle with if they never heard or thought about random number generators, don't understand Bluetooth etc. Also don't underestimate learned helplessness. Many will stop reading if it looks technical because they "can't understand that sort of thing. " Many such people never ever read such lengthy step by step technical documentation. It seems to them as a quantum physics experimental setup description sounds to the average programmer.

kortex 5y ago
> Also don't underestimate learned helplessness. Learned helplessness is so real. My partner works at a help desk, and I constantly hear stories of older folks just mentally shutting down as soon as she has them open the start menu or a settings menu. I even see it in myself, a super curious neophile software/hardware hacker. Sometimes I'll come across some particularly arcane API docs and it's like my brain just goes "tl;dr" to the whole thing and tries to immediately find a way to avoid interfacing with it. That mental switch of "ah this is overwhelming, eyes glaze over" is all too easy to trip, even if you push through it and it really is not that bad after the fact.
- bonoboTP 5y ago
  It's also an ego-threatening thing. Often the older folks or otherwise nontechnical people are socially higher status and being lectured about something that they may not understand sounds dangerous to them or they take it as being challenged by them, especially if the person explaining it is lower social status, younger, "just a kid" etc. It's easier for them to just refuse to participate and dismiss the topic as irrelevant, than to take up the game and then perhaps be seen as "dumb". And this state of affairs is actually quite unnatural. The natural course of things over the millennia was that older people are more experienced and can give direction and advice to the young ones. Sure, this is still true in some "soft" topics, but the generational gap in understanding how the modern world works has never been so large.

twoknee 5y ago

I prefer token over name, otherwise I think it's decent. Here's my crack at it for fun: Exposure Notification apps are a privacy preserving technology to help prevent the spread of COVID-19. They don't collect or log any location data which is what makes them private. Instead, a phone equipped with the app will continuously log and broadcast random tokens that change every 15 minutes. Nearby phones with the app will take note of the token and the signal strength, while broadcasting a token of their own. Each day the app downloads a public list of tokens that have been shared by people who have tested positive for COVID-19. If your phone has been around a number of these tokens, it will notify you to get tested and self-isolate. If you test positive for COVID-19 yourself, your doctor will give you a key to enter into the app. Entering the key will upload your tokens to the public list. While exposure notification apps do preserve privacy, they are limited in effectiveness without widespread adoption. Additionally they are not a suitable replacement for traditional contact tracing.