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The app is just a fork of the German Corona-Warn-App [1][2]. From what I can tell only the UI was modified, the codebase seems to be still the same. Honestly,

The app is just a fork of the German Corona-Warn-App [1][2]. From what I can tell only the UI was modified, the codebase seems to be still the same. Honestly, pushing the app to users isn’t anything to worry about – and in fact something I’d have loved to see other countries do as well. ________ [1] https://www.coronawarn.app/en/ https://www.coronawarn.app/en/ [2] https://github.com/corona-warn-app https://github.com/corona-warn-app

boredpudding 5y ago
The worrying part is that it was installed without consent.
- kuschku 5y ago
  There’s nothing worrying about that. You get tons of apps installed without consent (including whatever spam your network provider pushes on you). This app can actually save lives without sacrificing any privacy, pushing it to users is something that has no drawbacks. The largest trouble for the German version of the app was that not enough people installed it. Choosing to install it automatically isn’t something nefarious under these circumstances.
  - sildur 5y ago
    > There’s nothing worrying about that. You get tons of apps installed without consent (including whatever spam your network provider pushes on you). That is different. They are pre-installed and I can list them and disable them. They do not install suddenly by themselves months after buying the device. If they did so, there would be an outrage. > This app can actually save lives without sacrificing any privacy, pushing it to users is something that has no drawbacks. Yeah, "for our own good". Next time it would be an app that sends an alarm when an excon is near you. And next time it would be an app that sends an alarm when someone who shows dangerous opinions (ie. against government) is near you. No thanks, please unsubscribe me of this Chinese dystopia.
    - kuschku 5y ago
      > They do not install suddenly by themselves months after buying the device. If they did so, there would be an outrage. They absolute can do that, and do that. For example, if you switch SIM cards, the phone can (and in some situations will) install whatever crap the ISP chooses. In my case, inserting a SIM card from ALDI’s carrier used to auto-install some weather, news, and similar stuff. Luckily that stopped recently. This can happen at any time, actually. > Yeah, "for our own good". Sometimes it is actually for your own good. I agree that it can be a slippery slope, but using the available means to save lives is sometimes necessary. The only risk is governments not returning the power they got during this pandemic, but that’s more of a worry in 3rd-world-dictatorships.
      - sildur 5y ago
        > In my case, inserting a SIM card from ALDI’s carrier used to auto-install some weather, news, and similar stuff. Luckily that stopped recently. Surely there is a prompt. I never had apps silently auto-install in my phone. If that is true, one more reason to go with the custom rom way. > The only risk is governments not returning the power they got during this pandemic, but that’s more of a worry in 3rd-world-dictatorships. In my life I've seen a lot of just-for-emergency-temporary-only laws that become permanent once the outrage subsides. In supposedly first world countries
        kuschku 5y ago
        > Surely there is a prompt. I never had apps silently auto-install in my phone. If that is true, one more reason to go with the custom rom way. Nope, Google Play Services does this all in the background. The same happens if Google thinks you’ve reinstalled your device (e.g. by wiping the Play Services data) and it starts installing some of Google’s default apps again, without prompts
      - bool3max 5y ago
        > but that’s more of a worry in 3rd-world-dictatorships To be this delusional, it must feel great.
  - mssundaram 5y ago
    Under any circumstances it is nefarious. Please allow me into your home and let me put up a painting of my choosing.
  - axismundi 5y ago
    > You get tons of apps installed without consent (including whatever spam your network provider pushes on you). So you are putting this app in the same category as spam, at least that's good. > This app can actually save lives without sacrificing any privacy, pushing it to users is something that has no drawbacks. I have an app that can save your life, trust me. And give me your email so I can send it to you ;)
    - kuschku 5y ago
      > I have an app that can save your life, trust me. And give me your email so I can send it to you ;) Great, send me the source code, I’ll get it released on f-droid and then I’ll install the f-droid version of it, just like I’ve got the f-droid and microG version of the Corona Warn App installed :)
      - riekus 5y ago
        So where is the source code for this tracking app?
        kuschku 5y ago
        The upstream from which this app is forked is at https://github.com/corona-warn-app/cwa-app-android https://github.com/corona-warn-app/cwa-app-android, the fork itself is not publicly available, as far as I can tell.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    > This app can actually save lives without sacrificing any privacy, pushing it to users is something that has no drawbacks. This app might have absolutely no privacy leaks; honestly, it’s too early to know that yet. The code is not published; there’s been no public auditing of the backend data handling practices. Given that, I see drawbacks. I did not opt-in to the MA one when prompted on iOS (and it did not install [as far as I can tell]).
  - riekus 5y ago
    It is a slippery slope, the boundaries keep getting pushed, I think no one really cares about the app but just the fact that for some people it apparently is hidden installed.
- jackjeff 5y ago
  Exactly. Is that even legal?
88840-8855 5y ago
Except, the Corona Warn App is the biggest crap that I have ever seen. Yes, the code is open and free and super transparent; morally superior. But what about the effectiveness of this app? Even the German officials do not mention this app since many many many months. The app was criticised from all sides due to lack of effectiveness. Even the freedom-loving large news outlets published their opinions that they would have wished to see some sacrifice of those high morals for at least SOME level of effectiveness. I have the app and it is a big piece of junk since day 1. My brother is a doctor and is using this app. He has regular direct contact with Covid patients. Do you know how many "high risk contact" notifications he has received since Summer 2020? Yes, you guessed it: 0.
- kuschku 5y ago
  > The app was criticised from all sides due to lack of effectiveness. That’s because not enough users use it. About 10% of Germans have the app installed. Massachusetts deciding to auto-install the app on every device is the logical conclusion if you consider those statistics.
  - ganzuul 5y ago
    That's some seriously flawed logic, and a much bigger issue, if you are correct. They should have tried an information campaign first. If that didn't work then clearly people voted against it, and they have no business going against that. If they think they know better than the people they undermine democracy.
    - kuschku 5y ago
      Germany had a massive ad campaign for months without much success. The issue remains that people are lazy. That’s part of why microsoft bundling IE was banned, because 90%+ of users won’t go out of their way to install something.
      - ganzuul 5y ago
        I can't find those ads, but most likely the ads were uninformative so people did not find them to be instructive. Suggestion without reference to fact is the norm with those campaigns.
markdown 5y ago
In my country, the government re-skinned the Singaporean open source covid19 app, which appears to be about the same thing as this one. The government didn't install it in every phone, but they made it mandatory for business-owners to check that you have the app enabled if you want to enter their premises. Everyone needs to eat/shop, so most people were forced to install the app. Every grocery store has a greeter at the door to check you have the app running, check your temperature, and squirt sanitiser on your hands. https://www.tracetogether.gov.sg/ https://www.tracetogether.gov.sg/
nibix 5y ago
People just will worry about apps which suddenly appear on their phones without their action. And this is totally justified, as the chance that this could be something malicious is much higher than being something non-malicious. Having said that, I totally agree that German government should have done more to push the Corona Warn App - but only in public relation terms. I totally think Corona Warn App does not live to its full potential in Germany because it is not installed widely enough. But you just cannot do this by force.
josefx 5y ago
So the German government isn't happy with just fucking everything up locally and is now spreading globally? Did they run out of toxic masks to buy, fake tests to pay for and success statistics to falsify (by removing the leading 20 countries)? There are currently investigations against several members of the government over quite visible corruption while paying themselves with money meant to fight corona and more than enough reports around misuse of government funds because nobody checked how the money would be used. If there is anything corona related from the German government on your phone you probably should nuke it just to be sure. The mixture of corruption and stupid involved in making it is not something you want anywhere near you.
- kuschku 5y ago
  Luckily neither Scheuer nor Spahn were involved with the CWA. Check the source code, it’s actually really neat. Doesn’t help with the rest of the fuckups, obviously. Significantly worse is that now everyone has started switching to the luca app, which actually is a dystopian nightmare as it stores everything on its servers, forever, and sells everything to ad partners.
  - josefx 5y ago
    A quick check reveals a few things to me: a) the only thing the CWA seems to do to "protect" privacy is to send fake queries from time to time, which doesn't remove the real ones b) its 16 years and up without parental consent which implies that it does not meet the privacy requirements for children and c) it involves Google, which is one dystopian tech company too much for my comfort.
malka 5y ago
>and in fact something I’d have loved to see other countries do as well. Why are you wishing harm on people ?
- kuschku 5y ago
  Why are you? Since when is it justified to preinstall apps for tracking and advertising, but not justified to do this to save lives?
  - riekus 5y ago
    Pre installed (visibly) is a lot different that pushed and hidden installed, you really don't see that difference?
Boomerchick 5y ago
Gov is breaking into your house at midnight to sell face masks.

boredpudding 5y ago

The worrying part is that it was installed without consent.

kuschku 5y ago
There’s nothing worrying about that. You get tons of apps installed without consent (including whatever spam your network provider pushes on you). This app can actually save lives without sacrificing any privacy, pushing it to users is something that has no drawbacks. The largest trouble for the German version of the app was that not enough people installed it. Choosing to install it automatically isn’t something nefarious under these circumstances.
- sildur 5y ago
  > There’s nothing worrying about that. You get tons of apps installed without consent (including whatever spam your network provider pushes on you). That is different. They are pre-installed and I can list them and disable them. They do not install suddenly by themselves months after buying the device. If they did so, there would be an outrage. > This app can actually save lives without sacrificing any privacy, pushing it to users is something that has no drawbacks. Yeah, "for our own good". Next time it would be an app that sends an alarm when an excon is near you. And next time it would be an app that sends an alarm when someone who shows dangerous opinions (ie. against government) is near you. No thanks, please unsubscribe me of this Chinese dystopia.
  - kuschku 5y ago
    > They do not install suddenly by themselves months after buying the device. If they did so, there would be an outrage. They absolute can do that, and do that. For example, if you switch SIM cards, the phone can (and in some situations will) install whatever crap the ISP chooses. In my case, inserting a SIM card from ALDI’s carrier used to auto-install some weather, news, and similar stuff. Luckily that stopped recently. This can happen at any time, actually. > Yeah, "for our own good". Sometimes it is actually for your own good. I agree that it can be a slippery slope, but using the available means to save lives is sometimes necessary. The only risk is governments not returning the power they got during this pandemic, but that’s more of a worry in 3rd-world-dictatorships.
    - sildur 5y ago
      > In my case, inserting a SIM card from ALDI’s carrier used to auto-install some weather, news, and similar stuff. Luckily that stopped recently. Surely there is a prompt. I never had apps silently auto-install in my phone. If that is true, one more reason to go with the custom rom way. > The only risk is governments not returning the power they got during this pandemic, but that’s more of a worry in 3rd-world-dictatorships. In my life I've seen a lot of just-for-emergency-temporary-only laws that become permanent once the outrage subsides. In supposedly first world countries
      - kuschku 5y ago
        > Surely there is a prompt. I never had apps silently auto-install in my phone. If that is true, one more reason to go with the custom rom way. Nope, Google Play Services does this all in the background. The same happens if Google thinks you’ve reinstalled your device (e.g. by wiping the Play Services data) and it starts installing some of Google’s default apps again, without prompts
    - bool3max 5y ago
      > but that’s more of a worry in 3rd-world-dictatorships To be this delusional, it must feel great.
- mssundaram 5y ago
  Under any circumstances it is nefarious. Please allow me into your home and let me put up a painting of my choosing.
- axismundi 5y ago
  > You get tons of apps installed without consent (including whatever spam your network provider pushes on you). So you are putting this app in the same category as spam, at least that's good. > This app can actually save lives without sacrificing any privacy, pushing it to users is something that has no drawbacks. I have an app that can save your life, trust me. And give me your email so I can send it to you ;)
  - kuschku 5y ago
    > I have an app that can save your life, trust me. And give me your email so I can send it to you ;) Great, send me the source code, I’ll get it released on f-droid and then I’ll install the f-droid version of it, just like I’ve got the f-droid and microG version of the Corona Warn App installed :)
    - riekus 5y ago
      So where is the source code for this tracking app?
      - kuschku 5y ago
        The upstream from which this app is forked is at https://github.com/corona-warn-app/cwa-app-android https://github.com/corona-warn-app/cwa-app-android, the fork itself is not publicly available, as far as I can tell.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  > This app can actually save lives without sacrificing any privacy, pushing it to users is something that has no drawbacks. This app might have absolutely no privacy leaks; honestly, it’s too early to know that yet. The code is not published; there’s been no public auditing of the backend data handling practices. Given that, I see drawbacks. I did not opt-in to the MA one when prompted on iOS (and it did not install [as far as I can tell]).
- riekus 5y ago
  It is a slippery slope, the boundaries keep getting pushed, I think no one really cares about the app but just the fact that for some people it apparently is hidden installed.
jackjeff 5y ago
Exactly. Is that even legal?

88840-8855 5y ago

Except, the Corona Warn App is the biggest crap that I have ever seen. Yes, the code is open and free and super transparent; morally superior. But what about the effectiveness of this app? Even the German officials do not mention this app since many many many months. The app was criticised from all sides due to lack of effectiveness. Even the freedom-loving large news outlets published their opinions that they would have wished to see some sacrifice of those high morals for at least SOME level of effectiveness. I have the app and it is a big piece of junk since day 1. My brother is a doctor and is using this app. He has regular direct contact with Covid patients. Do you know how many "high risk contact" notifications he has received since Summer 2020? Yes, you guessed it: 0.

kuschku 5y ago
> The app was criticised from all sides due to lack of effectiveness. That’s because not enough users use it. About 10% of Germans have the app installed. Massachusetts deciding to auto-install the app on every device is the logical conclusion if you consider those statistics.
- ganzuul 5y ago
  That's some seriously flawed logic, and a much bigger issue, if you are correct. They should have tried an information campaign first. If that didn't work then clearly people voted against it, and they have no business going against that. If they think they know better than the people they undermine democracy.
  - kuschku 5y ago
    Germany had a massive ad campaign for months without much success. The issue remains that people are lazy. That’s part of why microsoft bundling IE was banned, because 90%+ of users won’t go out of their way to install something.
    - ganzuul 5y ago
      I can't find those ads, but most likely the ads were uninformative so people did not find them to be instructive. Suggestion without reference to fact is the norm with those campaigns.

markdown 5y ago

In my country, the government re-skinned the Singaporean open source covid19 app, which appears to be about the same thing as this one. The government didn't install it in every phone, but they made it mandatory for business-owners to check that you have the app enabled if you want to enter their premises. Everyone needs to eat/shop, so most people were forced to install the app. Every grocery store has a greeter at the door to check you have the app running, check your temperature, and squirt sanitiser on your hands. https://www.tracetogether.gov.sg/ https://www.tracetogether.gov.sg/

nibix 5y ago

People just will worry about apps which suddenly appear on their phones without their action. And this is totally justified, as the chance that this could be something malicious is much higher than being something non-malicious. Having said that, I totally agree that German government should have done more to push the Corona Warn App - but only in public relation terms. I totally think Corona Warn App does not live to its full potential in Germany because it is not installed widely enough. But you just cannot do this by force.

josefx 5y ago

So the German government isn't happy with just fucking everything up locally and is now spreading globally? Did they run out of toxic masks to buy, fake tests to pay for and success statistics to falsify (by removing the leading 20 countries)? There are currently investigations against several members of the government over quite visible corruption while paying themselves with money meant to fight corona and more than enough reports around misuse of government funds because nobody checked how the money would be used. If there is anything corona related from the German government on your phone you probably should nuke it just to be sure. The mixture of corruption and stupid involved in making it is not something you want anywhere near you.

kuschku 5y ago
Luckily neither Scheuer nor Spahn were involved with the CWA. Check the source code, it’s actually really neat. Doesn’t help with the rest of the fuckups, obviously. Significantly worse is that now everyone has started switching to the luca app, which actually is a dystopian nightmare as it stores everything on its servers, forever, and sells everything to ad partners.
- josefx 5y ago
  A quick check reveals a few things to me: a) the only thing the CWA seems to do to "protect" privacy is to send fake queries from time to time, which doesn't remove the real ones b) its 16 years and up without parental consent which implies that it does not meet the privacy requirements for children and c) it involves Google, which is one dystopian tech company too much for my comfort.

malka 5y ago

>and in fact something I’d have loved to see other countries do as well. Why are you wishing harm on people ?

kuschku 5y ago
Why are you? Since when is it justified to preinstall apps for tracking and advertising, but not justified to do this to save lives?
- riekus 5y ago
  Pre installed (visibly) is a lot different that pushed and hidden installed, you really don't see that difference?

Boomerchick 5y ago

Gov is breaking into your house at midnight to sell face masks.