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I read the link you shared. There is something to be said about expressing an idea with sufficient clarity in fewer words, without jargon or “officialise” or mo

I read the link you shared. There is something to be said about expressing an idea with sufficient clarity in fewer words, without jargon or “officialise” or more information that’s necessary. And Amazon doesn’t disagree with that principle. If anything, being clear, crisp, and succinct are the hallmarks of a great document. >Whatever can be presented using documents can be presented using slides too. For the kinds of problems that require document writing at Amazon, this statement simply just isn’t true. And the document review is NOT a presentation. Let me say that again - It is not a presentation. Presentations are about the presenter, often presenting as if they are the authority figure on a topic. Written document reviews are about the reader — giving the reader the opportunity to understand how a problem has or hasn’t been evaluated. The document reader is not the authority. As a matter of fact, they share documents to get feedback and find gaps in their thinking, or seek feedback on how they evaluated alternatives, and so on. Presentations and Amazon document reviews are fundamentally two different things. There is absolutely zero similarity between the two. The document should focus on the immediate topic, trade offs, solutions while supporting evidence or technical details, design artifacts, and FAQs etc are provided in appendices. This manner of information sharing is simply not possible in any PowerPoint or presentation slide format. And the simple proof to back my statements — Amazon and everything it has accomplished at what people now call “Amazon scale”. This is literally the secret sauce.

alok-g 5y ago
## I see two-three aspects that you are conflating together: 1. Expectations on the flow of information, whether the author/presentor is: (a) the authority figure, is teaching something to the audience and later answering questions or offer clarifications, but may also receive counter-points and feedback. (b) presenting their current thoughts and looking for feedback on the same to refine their thoughts and plans. I see no reason why 'b' isn't doable with slide-presentations, and we have actually done that more frequently than 'a'. 2. The container, slides vs. document, in which the information is presented. We are agreeing that slides require being more crisp, which is hard, owing to expectations of less text. Whereas a document also should ideally be crisp, however, expectations of use of a larger number of words and fuller sentences makes it easier. You have stated that the information for "kinds of problems that require document writing" and "topic, trade offs, solutions while supporting evidence or technical details, design artifacts, and FAQs" cannot be put into slides, but without explaining why so. I am questioning this again because I and my team has done all that successfully and repeatedly. 3. Sync vs. async. consumption of #2 by the audience. Even information put in slides can be shared with the audience for a silent consumption before discussions, and also be referred to later if and when needed. ## The real challenges are: A. The popular guidance given for slide-presentations is to keep text on the slides to a bare minimum and have the focus instead on presenter speaking during the meeting. This makes things further worse as the slides by themselves end up being uninterpretable without the presentor speaking. Or in other words, the slides end up being little more than speaker notes. I generally disagree with this blanket guidance, and have used slides in both ways: (a) Everything I need to communicate to the audience is written and visible on the slides, and I am peripheral to the meeting (think of a Teaching Assistant as opposed to a Lecturer), and (b) The slides carry just the visuals which I explain live verbally. Both 'a' and 'b' have their place depending on the context, i.e., the subject matter, audience, expected flow of information, etc. As an example, 'b' is more useful for classroom teaching to kids or otherwise for an audience who are averse to reading (there are many of them outside of work). B. Use of slides require bring crisper, which we're already agreeing to. C. Slide-presentations are typically done in sync manner under the status quo (but which need not be as noted in '3' above). The analog for documents would be to have all audience read section-by-section or para-by-para and discussing before proceeding. Whether applied to slides or documents, this is more useful only when the material has a sequential structure, i.e., the next section cannot be understood well or agreed upon until the current one is. Even if such sequencing is not there, sync does not always hurt though. Sync will be less optimal if: (a) The material is somehow such that the readers must go back and forth through the material before they would understand that the author is communicating. Too much of that won't be recommended for documents either. (b) When different audience members have widely varying (i) prior knowledge or understanding of the material, (ii) reading/absorption speed, or (iii) interest level in the subtopics or detail. Under this scenario, synchronization is at least one of ineffective or inefficient. Going fast would save time for those who already know, absorb fast, or want to skip subtopics/details, while the others would fail to follow. And vice versa. The said variations apply to document reading also, however, async consumption allows some audience members to finish sooner and then do something else while the remaining finish reading. ## Summary of my understanding If we do not conflate various above points, we'll find that it's not about document vs. slides. The real problem are 'A' above (bad guidance on how to make/present slides) and 'C(b)' above (cited variability in the audience). Between the two, 'A' is more easily fixed by changing guidance and training. Then using slides with silent reading becomes an available option for 'C(b)' too, except for the challenge 'B' above. If the authors have the skill for 'B' above, then not only slide-presentations, but also documents will be a lot better. So would also be meeting summaries which usually don't have the vigour/quality even at Amazon. ## Closing comments Please think through the above carefully and then tell me what you think. I am open to debate. :-)
- throwawaySlu 5y ago
  I want to point out the irony that you wrote a lengthy, dense document, despite your argument in favor of slides. And you’re asking for a debate (or saying you’re open to one). Im certainly not in the mood to write a document after what I previously explained, especially since your anecdotal evidence is that for you, slides have worked as well or better than documents. So having said, I don’t think this would be a productive “debate”. Instead, I’ll take this as an opportunity to provide feedback on your document. :) I think it’s completely possible that for the scale your organization operates at and types of problems you solve, slides are as good as or even more efficient than documents. That simply just isn’t true at Amazon, for the kinds of problems we solve. Now not every problem requires a document. But many problems are intrinsically hard, and they absolutely do. Your document above is super dense, and the main points are ambiguous, even after seriously reading a couple times. > Whereas a document also should ideally be crisp, however, expectations of use of a larger number of words and fuller sentences makes it easier. There is no expectation that you use more words than necessary in a document. You should use the number of words required to unambiguously convey the idea to the reader. Help THEM understand what’s in your head. You’re looking at it almost as an act of vanity, and that completely misses the point. That statement is difficult to decipher, and if you shared a complex topic with me using this writing style, I would actually prefer slides or ask you to explain it to me like I’m 5. Why? Because your document isn’t conducive to a productive debate. The conclusion isn’t immediately clear, and I don’t know what the supporting evidence is. Instead, you have a lengthy introductory text trying to break down the problem across several dimensions, but which of these are particularly relevant here? Unclear. At Amazon, you would get dinged and the reader would question why you’re using complex sentence structure - is it because you’re compensating for not having done enough research? And passive voice is actively discouraged. I would probably ask you bluntly, “how much of this context is actually relevant?” > If we do not conflate various above points, we'll find that it's not about document vs. slides. The real problem are 'A' above (bad guidance on how to make/present slides) and 'C(b)' above (cited variability in the audience). Why such a lengthy write up if this is the summary of your argument? And “lengthy” is an understatement. There’s so much dense information here that you, the author, are not able to refer back to your own writing without having to simplify it down to an abbreviation! This is criminal, my friend. The thesis is hidden at the end of a complex jungle of different points, with lists that are broken down into more lists. “lists” and bullet points, even if you try to weasel them in without newline separated bullet points, dont help the reader. Now The reader has to go back and put all this complexity in context, creating a tree of all this information and each node in their head. You’re actively making the reader work hard to understand your idea. At Amazon, we often dismiss this document writing as the author doesn’t know how to write well (and we need to help them), or they’re intentionally bullshitting us. Going back to your doc — Why make the reader work hard to decipher everything else, which merely ended up being tangential? And your fundamental argument is a begging the question fallacy. The take away from your post is that slides are as effective or perhaps more so than a document, but you provided nothing to actually back up THAT statement. Your presenting what you are arguing for as being the truth in the first place. Btw if this was an actual document review, my comments would be attached directly to your document and left as feedback that you or anyone else can revisit later on. We wouldn’t need to record the meeting or have someone separately take notes of the discussion. Overall, this was more work to read than it ought to be. With so much unnecessary jargon and tangential points, it’s no surprise than you feel something other than a document would be more productive. I’m convinced if you are able to write with clarity and conciseness, your opinion would change. You certainly produced a document in your post, but it’s as if you have preconceived notion that a document had to include jargon, lengthy sentence structure, and “officialese”.

alok-g 5y ago

## I see two-three aspects that you are conflating together: 1. Expectations on the flow of information, whether the author/presentor is: (a) the authority figure, is teaching something to the audience and later answering questions or offer clarifications, but may also receive counter-points and feedback. (b) presenting their current thoughts and looking for feedback on the same to refine their thoughts and plans. I see no reason why 'b' isn't doable with slide-presentations, and we have actually done that more frequently than 'a'. 2. The container, slides vs. document, in which the information is presented. We are agreeing that slides require being more crisp, which is hard, owing to expectations of less text. Whereas a document also should ideally be crisp, however, expectations of use of a larger number of words and fuller sentences makes it easier. You have stated that the information for "kinds of problems that require document writing" and "topic, trade offs, solutions while supporting evidence or technical details, design artifacts, and FAQs" cannot be put into slides, but without explaining why so. I am questioning this again because I and my team has done all that successfully and repeatedly. 3. Sync vs. async. consumption of #2 by the audience. Even information put in slides can be shared with the audience for a silent consumption before discussions, and also be referred to later if and when needed. ## The real challenges are: A. The popular guidance given for slide-presentations is to keep text on the slides to a bare minimum and have the focus instead on presenter speaking during the meeting. This makes things further worse as the slides by themselves end up being uninterpretable without the presentor speaking. Or in other words, the slides end up being little more than speaker notes. I generally disagree with this blanket guidance, and have used slides in both ways: (a) Everything I need to communicate to the audience is written and visible on the slides, and I am peripheral to the meeting (think of a Teaching Assistant as opposed to a Lecturer), and (b) The slides carry just the visuals which I explain live verbally. Both 'a' and 'b' have their place depending on the context, i.e., the subject matter, audience, expected flow of information, etc. As an example, 'b' is more useful for classroom teaching to kids or otherwise for an audience who are averse to reading (there are many of them outside of work). B. Use of slides require bring crisper, which we're already agreeing to. C. Slide-presentations are typically done in sync manner under the status quo (but which need not be as noted in '3' above). The analog for documents would be to have all audience read section-by-section or para-by-para and discussing before proceeding. Whether applied to slides or documents, this is more useful only when the material has a sequential structure, i.e., the next section cannot be understood well or agreed upon until the current one is. Even if such sequencing is not there, sync does not always hurt though. Sync will be less optimal if: (a) The material is somehow such that the readers must go back and forth through the material before they would understand that the author is communicating. Too much of that won't be recommended for documents either. (b) When different audience members have widely varying (i) prior knowledge or understanding of the material, (ii) reading/absorption speed, or (iii) interest level in the subtopics or detail. Under this scenario, synchronization is at least one of ineffective or inefficient. Going fast would save time for those who already know, absorb fast, or want to skip subtopics/details, while the others would fail to follow. And vice versa. The said variations apply to document reading also, however, async consumption allows some audience members to finish sooner and then do something else while the remaining finish reading. ## Summary of my understanding If we do not conflate various above points, we'll find that it's not about document vs. slides. The real problem are 'A' above (bad guidance on how to make/present slides) and 'C(b)' above (cited variability in the audience). Between the two, 'A' is more easily fixed by changing guidance and training. Then using slides with silent reading becomes an available option for 'C(b)' too, except for the challenge 'B' above. If the authors have the skill for 'B' above, then not only slide-presentations, but also documents will be a lot better. So would also be meeting summaries which usually don't have the vigour/quality even at Amazon. ## Closing comments Please think through the above carefully and then tell me what you think. I am open to debate. :-)

throwawaySlu 5y ago
I want to point out the irony that you wrote a lengthy, dense document, despite your argument in favor of slides. And you’re asking for a debate (or saying you’re open to one). Im certainly not in the mood to write a document after what I previously explained, especially since your anecdotal evidence is that for you, slides have worked as well or better than documents. So having said, I don’t think this would be a productive “debate”. Instead, I’ll take this as an opportunity to provide feedback on your document. :) I think it’s completely possible that for the scale your organization operates at and types of problems you solve, slides are as good as or even more efficient than documents. That simply just isn’t true at Amazon, for the kinds of problems we solve. Now not every problem requires a document. But many problems are intrinsically hard, and they absolutely do. Your document above is super dense, and the main points are ambiguous, even after seriously reading a couple times. > Whereas a document also should ideally be crisp, however, expectations of use of a larger number of words and fuller sentences makes it easier. There is no expectation that you use more words than necessary in a document. You should use the number of words required to unambiguously convey the idea to the reader. Help THEM understand what’s in your head. You’re looking at it almost as an act of vanity, and that completely misses the point. That statement is difficult to decipher, and if you shared a complex topic with me using this writing style, I would actually prefer slides or ask you to explain it to me like I’m 5. Why? Because your document isn’t conducive to a productive debate. The conclusion isn’t immediately clear, and I don’t know what the supporting evidence is. Instead, you have a lengthy introductory text trying to break down the problem across several dimensions, but which of these are particularly relevant here? Unclear. At Amazon, you would get dinged and the reader would question why you’re using complex sentence structure - is it because you’re compensating for not having done enough research? And passive voice is actively discouraged. I would probably ask you bluntly, “how much of this context is actually relevant?” > If we do not conflate various above points, we'll find that it's not about document vs. slides. The real problem are 'A' above (bad guidance on how to make/present slides) and 'C(b)' above (cited variability in the audience). Why such a lengthy write up if this is the summary of your argument? And “lengthy” is an understatement. There’s so much dense information here that you, the author, are not able to refer back to your own writing without having to simplify it down to an abbreviation! This is criminal, my friend. The thesis is hidden at the end of a complex jungle of different points, with lists that are broken down into more lists. “lists” and bullet points, even if you try to weasel them in without newline separated bullet points, dont help the reader. Now The reader has to go back and put all this complexity in context, creating a tree of all this information and each node in their head. You’re actively making the reader work hard to understand your idea. At Amazon, we often dismiss this document writing as the author doesn’t know how to write well (and we need to help them), or they’re intentionally bullshitting us. Going back to your doc — Why make the reader work hard to decipher everything else, which merely ended up being tangential? And your fundamental argument is a begging the question fallacy. The take away from your post is that slides are as effective or perhaps more so than a document, but you provided nothing to actually back up THAT statement. Your presenting what you are arguing for as being the truth in the first place. Btw if this was an actual document review, my comments would be attached directly to your document and left as feedback that you or anyone else can revisit later on. We wouldn’t need to record the meeting or have someone separately take notes of the discussion. Overall, this was more work to read than it ought to be. With so much unnecessary jargon and tangential points, it’s no surprise than you feel something other than a document would be more productive. I’m convinced if you are able to write with clarity and conciseness, your opinion would change. You certainly produced a document in your post, but it’s as if you have preconceived notion that a document had to include jargon, lengthy sentence structure, and “officialese”.