6 ms·

Is this physical or mental longevity, or both? It would be awful if you had the body of a 25 year old with the mind of a 95 year old (forgetful, slow, dementia,

by mlac 5y ago

Is this physical or mental longevity, or both? It would be awful if you had the body of a 25 year old with the mind of a 95 year old (forgetful, slow, dementia, Alzheimer’s). Those things that take older people quickly are much longer battles for “healthy” bodies. I am in my early 30’s, but my view right now is that I will live in the time I was born into and take reasonable steps to be healthy for a long life. I hope I get 60 more years with my wife, but when it is my time, it is my time, and I will accept that I have used the time and resources I was given. Jason Isbell’s song “vampires” comes to mind. Part of what makes life “life” is death. And spending too much excess time and energy (one’s life) on expanding future life is… trading life for life. But likely missing time with family and friends who likely won’t get to live until they are 160.

kiba 5y ago
There's no reason to expect that mental or physical longevity to be isolated from each other. Especially since physical activities often impact mental health anyway.
ALittleLight 5y ago
It's, in the optimistic case, both. At least from what I understand from listening to the radiolab story on it. Regardless, having the body of a 30 year old and the brain of a 90 year old is better than having the body and brain of a 90 year old. I don't understand people who say things like "I will live with the time I'm given". Do you reject modern medicine because that's an unnatural extension of your time? If you had a fatal illness that could be cured would you refuse treatment? Hand soap, fertilizer, and modern nutrition have likely extended your expected lifespan. Do you go without those as well? I think it can sound romantic to stick with your natural span. Especially if that span extends out for decades yet. I expect it's another matter entirely to be on death's door. A less selfish way to think about it is to imagine an elderly loved one. If your mother could take rapamaycin and live an additional 40 years in good health, would you prefer she die at 80? I think death is a very bad thing and having a way to put it off is very good. Fatalistic attitudes confuse the issue.
- whichquestion 5y ago
  I think when people say things like, “I will live with the time I’m given” they often mean that they will live however long they can, with medical intervention, while the cost of that intervention and additional years it provides isn’t too high. So it’s likely they will still take advantage of the current technologies that have the potential to extend their lives, as long as the price it imposes isn’t over some cost threshold. Though, I suppose some people will simply do whatever they can to stay alive no matter the cost since they value their lives above everything else. Others will shun the life saving measures and die.
  - varjag 5y ago
    Yes people prefer to live substantially long thanks to fruits of technology and medicine but to thank God for that.
- bawolff 5y ago
  Dementia/alzheimers/etc is one of the scariest things i can imagine. I'm not sure i would want to live if i had the later stages of that, or if you can even call that living. Body of a 90 year old mind of a 30 year old is something i would take, though.
  - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
    >Dementia/alzheimers/etc is one of the scariest things i can imagine. I'm not sure i would want to live if i had the later stages of that, or if you can even call that living. ok but it is not a 100% case that the mind of a 90 year old is the mind of an Alzheimer's patient. Michael Caine is 88 and I think he is doing relatively well mentally.
  - ben_w 5y ago
    My mother and grandmother both had it. While I certainly wish to avoid that end, if I get to have the body of a 30 year old from now until 80 and then follow in their footsteps, that’s still an improvement on the gradual physical decline which preceded their mental decline. Basically I’d take either hypothetical form of treatment. Either is better then neither.
jz_ 5y ago
> Is this physical or mental longevity, or both? I A different study plans to evaluate Rapamycin for Alzheimer's disease, while being well aware of the positive effects on lifespan. https://news.uthscsa.edu/ut-health-san-antonio-gains-2m-to-study-rapamycin-for-alzheimers/ https://news.uthscsa.edu/ut-health-san-antonio-gains-2m-to-s...
AlchemistCamp 5y ago
The brain is part of the body.
- MikeDelta 5y ago
  Exactly, if the body ages in 90 years to only 30, all organs should as well, including the brain. This means that age-related diseases like heart problems, alzheimer, etc, should not occur (except where they already occur in young people).
  - mlac 5y ago
    > all organs should as well, including the brain In theory - this assumes that the drug has an equal effect across the entire system and that all organs will age at the same rate. It may, for whatever reason, not be the case and things will age at different rates. How about senses? Hearing loss can be non-repairable. Likewise with vision / macular degeneration that may not be fixed with this. How about taste? It’s a nice idea to think that everything will just stay the level of a 30 year old over the period of 100+ years is, in my opinion, wishful thinking. It will still age, just in different and unexpected ways.
    - MikeDelta 5y ago
      I totally agree with you. Tear and wear on the body will continue as will the clogging of the arteries. Not all aging is cellular indeed.
agumonkey 5y ago
body and mind goes hand in hand, when my cardiovascular system cracks, my brain follows, my senses after that and my mind suffers from all the difficulties and loss of simple pleasures. now of course one can lose his head even if a healthy body.. but raising the floor overall is good.
aaron695 5y ago
Alzheimer’s kills you. So what you are proposing is designing drugs that extends life and cripples the mind. That is very hard. If you want to be really evil make it cripple the body as well. But that'd be fucking fucking hard. HN really overestimates scientists. They are not that smart. They barely can extend human life yet. Let's calm down on the evil life extension possibilities for now. One day perhaps. But you'll have to live long enough to see it.
- mlac 5y ago
  I know the science is limited (and necessarily long running to see the effects), but I think having a conversation about the end goal and potential consequences is interesting and makes for good discussion in the comments. And my concern wasn’t that the drug would cripple the mind - my concern is that the drug may extend the life of most organs but not be as effective on the brain (or vice versa, or impact them at different rates).
  - aaron695 5y ago
    > drug may extend the life of most organs but not be as effective on the brain This is a non sequitur. It's not a life extending drug if you forget how to breath correctly or are in a coma. Perhaps you need to be a little older to fear age, but when you see people dying of cancer who have children, which these drugs will delay, you might see that 6 months extra for their children might mean whether they remember their parent at all, or an extra chance to play ball or a programming session or to reach puberty and have a more mature conversation with them. You die when your times comes is a slogan for the youth. People on their death beds at 90 are scared and crying and fear what is to come. I've been thinking about starting Rapamycin, but I need to sit down and do the research first. It's a pretty serious drug. But you are not going to be keeping your body healthy 30 years - 140 years with green tea and exercise. But I don't get why people don't want to slow down their ageing at all. I get people like the idea of eternal life as a cripple, it's a 2000+ years old story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithonus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithonus but it's not practical.
    - 5y ago
inglor_cz 5y ago
We still seem to engage in the "but mind is completely different from body" pattern of thinking. Even if the modern reincarnationists were right and brain was just a TV set channeling the mental "signal" instead of the source of your mind, it is pretty clear that a broken brain is usually part of a broken body. Degraded metabolism, stiff arteries, cancers, most such pathologies involve the entire organism.
- mlac 5y ago
  It’s not that it’s completely different, it’s that we have an extremely limited understanding of the brain and how things operate. Things like CTE can only be diagnosed post-mortem, so research on those things would slow significantly (unless people who got it killed themselves like others have). I am specifically speaking to head trauma, mental disorders, and issues with the brain. Things we don’t know how to treat or fight, that a 30 year old body would only serve to prolong the pain and decline caused by the illness.

by mlac 5y ago

kiba 5y ago

There's no reason to expect that mental or physical longevity to be isolated from each other. Especially since physical activities often impact mental health anyway.

ALittleLight 5y ago

It's, in the optimistic case, both. At least from what I understand from listening to the radiolab story on it. Regardless, having the body of a 30 year old and the brain of a 90 year old is better than having the body and brain of a 90 year old. I don't understand people who say things like "I will live with the time I'm given". Do you reject modern medicine because that's an unnatural extension of your time? If you had a fatal illness that could be cured would you refuse treatment? Hand soap, fertilizer, and modern nutrition have likely extended your expected lifespan. Do you go without those as well? I think it can sound romantic to stick with your natural span. Especially if that span extends out for decades yet. I expect it's another matter entirely to be on death's door. A less selfish way to think about it is to imagine an elderly loved one. If your mother could take rapamaycin and live an additional 40 years in good health, would you prefer she die at 80? I think death is a very bad thing and having a way to put it off is very good. Fatalistic attitudes confuse the issue.

whichquestion 5y ago
I think when people say things like, “I will live with the time I’m given” they often mean that they will live however long they can, with medical intervention, while the cost of that intervention and additional years it provides isn’t too high. So it’s likely they will still take advantage of the current technologies that have the potential to extend their lives, as long as the price it imposes isn’t over some cost threshold. Though, I suppose some people will simply do whatever they can to stay alive no matter the cost since they value their lives above everything else. Others will shun the life saving measures and die.
- varjag 5y ago
  Yes people prefer to live substantially long thanks to fruits of technology and medicine but to thank God for that.
bawolff 5y ago
Dementia/alzheimers/etc is one of the scariest things i can imagine. I'm not sure i would want to live if i had the later stages of that, or if you can even call that living. Body of a 90 year old mind of a 30 year old is something i would take, though.
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago
  >Dementia/alzheimers/etc is one of the scariest things i can imagine. I'm not sure i would want to live if i had the later stages of that, or if you can even call that living. ok but it is not a 100% case that the mind of a 90 year old is the mind of an Alzheimer's patient. Michael Caine is 88 and I think he is doing relatively well mentally.
- ben_w 5y ago
  My mother and grandmother both had it. While I certainly wish to avoid that end, if I get to have the body of a 30 year old from now until 80 and then follow in their footsteps, that’s still an improvement on the gradual physical decline which preceded their mental decline. Basically I’d take either hypothetical form of treatment. Either is better then neither.

jz_ 5y ago

> Is this physical or mental longevity, or both? I A different study plans to evaluate Rapamycin for Alzheimer's disease, while being well aware of the positive effects on lifespan. https://news.uthscsa.edu/ut-health-san-antonio-gains-2m-to-study-rapamycin-for-alzheimers/ https://news.uthscsa.edu/ut-health-san-antonio-gains-2m-to-s...

AlchemistCamp 5y ago

The brain is part of the body.

MikeDelta 5y ago
Exactly, if the body ages in 90 years to only 30, all organs should as well, including the brain. This means that age-related diseases like heart problems, alzheimer, etc, should not occur (except where they already occur in young people).
- mlac 5y ago
  > all organs should as well, including the brain In theory - this assumes that the drug has an equal effect across the entire system and that all organs will age at the same rate. It may, for whatever reason, not be the case and things will age at different rates. How about senses? Hearing loss can be non-repairable. Likewise with vision / macular degeneration that may not be fixed with this. How about taste? It’s a nice idea to think that everything will just stay the level of a 30 year old over the period of 100+ years is, in my opinion, wishful thinking. It will still age, just in different and unexpected ways.
  - MikeDelta 5y ago
    I totally agree with you. Tear and wear on the body will continue as will the clogging of the arteries. Not all aging is cellular indeed.

agumonkey 5y ago

body and mind goes hand in hand, when my cardiovascular system cracks, my brain follows, my senses after that and my mind suffers from all the difficulties and loss of simple pleasures. now of course one can lose his head even if a healthy body.. but raising the floor overall is good.

aaron695 5y ago

Alzheimer’s kills you. So what you are proposing is designing drugs that extends life and cripples the mind. That is very hard. If you want to be really evil make it cripple the body as well. But that'd be fucking fucking hard. HN really overestimates scientists. They are not that smart. They barely can extend human life yet. Let's calm down on the evil life extension possibilities for now. One day perhaps. But you'll have to live long enough to see it.

mlac 5y ago
I know the science is limited (and necessarily long running to see the effects), but I think having a conversation about the end goal and potential consequences is interesting and makes for good discussion in the comments. And my concern wasn’t that the drug would cripple the mind - my concern is that the drug may extend the life of most organs but not be as effective on the brain (or vice versa, or impact them at different rates).
- aaron695 5y ago
  > drug may extend the life of most organs but not be as effective on the brain This is a non sequitur. It's not a life extending drug if you forget how to breath correctly or are in a coma. Perhaps you need to be a little older to fear age, but when you see people dying of cancer who have children, which these drugs will delay, you might see that 6 months extra for their children might mean whether they remember their parent at all, or an extra chance to play ball or a programming session or to reach puberty and have a more mature conversation with them. You die when your times comes is a slogan for the youth. People on their death beds at 90 are scared and crying and fear what is to come. I've been thinking about starting Rapamycin, but I need to sit down and do the research first. It's a pretty serious drug. But you are not going to be keeping your body healthy 30 years - 140 years with green tea and exercise. But I don't get why people don't want to slow down their ageing at all. I get people like the idea of eternal life as a cripple, it's a 2000+ years old story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithonus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithonus but it's not practical.
  - 5y ago

inglor_cz 5y ago

We still seem to engage in the "but mind is completely different from body" pattern of thinking. Even if the modern reincarnationists were right and brain was just a TV set channeling the mental "signal" instead of the source of your mind, it is pretty clear that a broken brain is usually part of a broken body. Degraded metabolism, stiff arteries, cancers, most such pathologies involve the entire organism.

mlac 5y ago
It’s not that it’s completely different, it’s that we have an extremely limited understanding of the brain and how things operate. Things like CTE can only be diagnosed post-mortem, so research on those things would slow significantly (unless people who got it killed themselves like others have). I am specifically speaking to head trauma, mental disorders, and issues with the brain. Things we don’t know how to treat or fight, that a 30 year old body would only serve to prolong the pain and decline caused by the illness.