8 ms·

Slight correction - ‘ata’ means either father or grandfather (father of apples). The city was known to have a lot of apple trees in the surrounding mountains.

by webo 5y ago

Miiko 5y ago
Not really. Kazakh word for "father" is "әке", and "-ата" is used as suffix, similar to Japanese "-san". Which is not very relevant anyway, since the real name of the city in Kazakh was always "Almaty". It is surely derived from "alma" (which is Kazakh for "apple") but does not have a direct translation.
- nanis 5y ago
  > real name of the city in Kazakh was always "Almaty" Originally it used to be Alma Ata which then became Almatı. This kind of transformation is common in Turkic languages. Ata does mean father or forefather or grandfather. It is also used in the sense of "ancestor" in a similar sense. In that sense, it is like көке (köke) which is derived from the word "root". It is not used in Turkey like that, but any Turk would understand why it means "father".
  - Miiko 5y ago
    > Originally it used to be Alma Ata which then became Almatı. Depends on what you mean by "originally" ;) The modern city was founded in 1854 when the Russians established the military fortification of Zailiyskoye (renamed Verny in 1855) on the site of the ancient settlement of Almaty, which had been destroyed by the Mongols in the 13th century. In Soviet time (1921) the city was indeed renamed to "Alma-Ata", but only in Russian, in Kazakh the name became "Almaty". In 1993, the government renamed the city from the Russian "Alma-Ata" to the Kazakh name "Almaty". In any case, it is kind of incorrect to translate "Alma-Ata" from Kazakh, because this name was never used in that language.
    - wnscooke 5y ago
      But even saying “the Kazak name ‘Almaty’” is still not correct because it gives the impression that the final sound is like an English -y, like happy. For those who know Cyrillic it is still inaccurate because the Cyrillic -y sounds like an English -oo. The only way to really show “the Kazak name” is to use Cyrillic, or their LtR script: Алматы, or الماتى. That final sound is more like an English -uh.
      - Miiko 5y ago
        Actually, "Almaty" is the correct Kazakh spelling of the name - if using the latest 2021 revision of new alphabet, to be officially used starting 2023, replacing current Cyrillic one (in which the spelling is "Алматы", by the way). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_alphabets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_alphabets

Slight correction - ‘ata’ means either father or grandfather (father of apples). The city was known to have a lot of apple trees in the surrounding mountains.

by webo 5y ago

Slight correction - ‘ata’ means either father or grandfather (father of apples). The city was known to have a lot of apple trees in the surrounding mountains.

Miiko 5y ago

Not really. Kazakh word for "father" is "әке", and "-ата" is used as suffix, similar to Japanese "-san". Which is not very relevant anyway, since the real name of the city in Kazakh was always "Almaty". It is surely derived from "alma" (which is Kazakh for "apple") but does not have a direct translation.

nanis 5y ago
> real name of the city in Kazakh was always "Almaty" Originally it used to be Alma Ata which then became Almatı. This kind of transformation is common in Turkic languages. Ata does mean father or forefather or grandfather. It is also used in the sense of "ancestor" in a similar sense. In that sense, it is like көке (köke) which is derived from the word "root". It is not used in Turkey like that, but any Turk would understand why it means "father".
- Miiko 5y ago
  > Originally it used to be Alma Ata which then became Almatı. Depends on what you mean by "originally" ;) The modern city was founded in 1854 when the Russians established the military fortification of Zailiyskoye (renamed Verny in 1855) on the site of the ancient settlement of Almaty, which had been destroyed by the Mongols in the 13th century. In Soviet time (1921) the city was indeed renamed to "Alma-Ata", but only in Russian, in Kazakh the name became "Almaty". In 1993, the government renamed the city from the Russian "Alma-Ata" to the Kazakh name "Almaty". In any case, it is kind of incorrect to translate "Alma-Ata" from Kazakh, because this name was never used in that language.
  - wnscooke 5y ago
    But even saying “the Kazak name ‘Almaty’” is still not correct because it gives the impression that the final sound is like an English -y, like happy. For those who know Cyrillic it is still inaccurate because the Cyrillic -y sounds like an English -oo. The only way to really show “the Kazak name” is to use Cyrillic, or their LtR script: Алматы, or الماتى. That final sound is more like an English -uh.
    - Miiko 5y ago
      Actually, "Almaty" is the correct Kazakh spelling of the name - if using the latest 2021 revision of new alphabet, to be officially used starting 2023, replacing current Cyrillic one (in which the spelling is "Алматы", by the way). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_alphabets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_alphabets