4 ms·

Almaty, which used to be the capitol of Kazakhstan = 'alma ata' which means something like 'mother of apples'...

webo 5y ago
Slight correction - ‘ata’ means either father or grandfather (father of apples). The city was known to have a lot of apple trees in the surrounding mountains.
- Miiko 5y ago
  Not really. Kazakh word for "father" is "әке", and "-ата" is used as suffix, similar to Japanese "-san". Which is not very relevant anyway, since the real name of the city in Kazakh was always "Almaty". It is surely derived from "alma" (which is Kazakh for "apple") but does not have a direct translation.
  - nanis 5y ago
    > real name of the city in Kazakh was always "Almaty" Originally it used to be Alma Ata which then became Almatı. This kind of transformation is common in Turkic languages. Ata does mean father or forefather or grandfather. It is also used in the sense of "ancestor" in a similar sense. In that sense, it is like көке (köke) which is derived from the word "root". It is not used in Turkey like that, but any Turk would understand why it means "father".
    - Miiko 5y ago
      > Originally it used to be Alma Ata which then became Almatı. Depends on what you mean by "originally" ;) The modern city was founded in 1854 when the Russians established the military fortification of Zailiyskoye (renamed Verny in 1855) on the site of the ancient settlement of Almaty, which had been destroyed by the Mongols in the 13th century. In Soviet time (1921) the city was indeed renamed to "Alma-Ata", but only in Russian, in Kazakh the name became "Almaty". In 1993, the government renamed the city from the Russian "Alma-Ata" to the Kazakh name "Almaty". In any case, it is kind of incorrect to translate "Alma-Ata" from Kazakh, because this name was never used in that language.
      - wnscooke 5y ago
        But even saying “the Kazak name ‘Almaty’” is still not correct because it gives the impression that the final sound is like an English -y, like happy. For those who know Cyrillic it is still inaccurate because the Cyrillic -y sounds like an English -oo. The only way to really show “the Kazak name” is to use Cyrillic, or their LtR script: Алматы, or الماتى. That final sound is more like an English -uh.
        Miiko 5y ago
        Actually, "Almaty" is the correct Kazakh spelling of the name - if using the latest 2021 revision of new alphabet, to be officially used starting 2023, replacing current Cyrillic one (in which the spelling is "Алматы", by the way). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_alphabets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_alphabets
5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
You're using the Soviet bastardization of the name. The original Kazakh name (Almaty, which has been used through the whole history of the city) has nothing to do with apples or grandfathers.
- dmitriid 5y ago
  Unless you accept that Almaty comes from Almatau which means Apple Mountain. There's little doubt that the name comes from the word apple.
- nanis 5y ago
  > You're using the Soviet bastardization of the name. I am genuinely curious about how the name Alma Ata which consists of two Turkic words and which how I was taught in school when I was growing up in Turkey is the "Soviet bastardization". Update: Hmmm ... Wikipedia article also seems to indicate that it was Soviet thing to call it Alma Ata: > The name Almaty has its roots in the medieval settlement Almatu, that existed near the present-day city.[10] A disputed theory holds that the name is derived from the Kazakh word for 'apple' (алма), and is often translated as "full of apples". Originally it was Almatau which means Apple Mountain. The Russian version of the name was Alma-Ata (Kaz. Father of Apples). Since gaining its independence from the Soviet Union, the use of the Kazakh Almaty is accepted.

webo 5y ago

Slight correction - ‘ata’ means either father or grandfather (father of apples). The city was known to have a lot of apple trees in the surrounding mountains.

Miiko 5y ago
Not really. Kazakh word for "father" is "әке", and "-ата" is used as suffix, similar to Japanese "-san". Which is not very relevant anyway, since the real name of the city in Kazakh was always "Almaty". It is surely derived from "alma" (which is Kazakh for "apple") but does not have a direct translation.
- nanis 5y ago
  > real name of the city in Kazakh was always "Almaty" Originally it used to be Alma Ata which then became Almatı. This kind of transformation is common in Turkic languages. Ata does mean father or forefather or grandfather. It is also used in the sense of "ancestor" in a similar sense. In that sense, it is like көке (köke) which is derived from the word "root". It is not used in Turkey like that, but any Turk would understand why it means "father".
  - Miiko 5y ago
    > Originally it used to be Alma Ata which then became Almatı. Depends on what you mean by "originally" ;) The modern city was founded in 1854 when the Russians established the military fortification of Zailiyskoye (renamed Verny in 1855) on the site of the ancient settlement of Almaty, which had been destroyed by the Mongols in the 13th century. In Soviet time (1921) the city was indeed renamed to "Alma-Ata", but only in Russian, in Kazakh the name became "Almaty". In 1993, the government renamed the city from the Russian "Alma-Ata" to the Kazakh name "Almaty". In any case, it is kind of incorrect to translate "Alma-Ata" from Kazakh, because this name was never used in that language.
    - wnscooke 5y ago
      But even saying “the Kazak name ‘Almaty’” is still not correct because it gives the impression that the final sound is like an English -y, like happy. For those who know Cyrillic it is still inaccurate because the Cyrillic -y sounds like an English -oo. The only way to really show “the Kazak name” is to use Cyrillic, or their LtR script: Алматы, or الماتى. That final sound is more like an English -uh.
      - Miiko 5y ago
        Actually, "Almaty" is the correct Kazakh spelling of the name - if using the latest 2021 revision of new alphabet, to be officially used starting 2023, replacing current Cyrillic one (in which the spelling is "Алматы", by the way). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_alphabets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_alphabets

5e92cb50239222b 5y ago

You're using the Soviet bastardization of the name. The original Kazakh name (Almaty, which has been used through the whole history of the city) has nothing to do with apples or grandfathers.

dmitriid 5y ago
Unless you accept that Almaty comes from Almatau which means Apple Mountain. There's little doubt that the name comes from the word apple.
nanis 5y ago
> You're using the Soviet bastardization of the name. I am genuinely curious about how the name Alma Ata which consists of two Turkic words and which how I was taught in school when I was growing up in Turkey is the "Soviet bastardization". Update: Hmmm ... Wikipedia article also seems to indicate that it was Soviet thing to call it Alma Ata: > The name Almaty has its roots in the medieval settlement Almatu, that existed near the present-day city.[10] A disputed theory holds that the name is derived from the Kazakh word for 'apple' (алма), and is often translated as "full of apples". Originally it was Almatau which means Apple Mountain. The Russian version of the name was Alma-Ata (Kaz. Father of Apples). Since gaining its independence from the Soviet Union, the use of the Kazakh Almaty is accepted.