5 ms·

Is it even fair to call it a 'flaw' or 'broken' if they advertise the limitations? Almost all electronics will have some operational temperature range depending

Is it even fair to call it a 'flaw' or 'broken' if they advertise the limitations? Almost all electronics will have some operational temperature range depending on power consumed and cooling available. Is there even active cooling on the unit?

tptacek 5y ago
Yes? If you advertise a flaw, it remains a flaw.
- throwaway69123 5y ago
  Hard to call this a flaw no product ever invented isn’t without limitations
  - falcolas 5y ago
    However, products are frequently created to not shut down in “average” summer temperatures. It’s a well known operating parameter throughout the US - temperatures break 105°F even up in Canada. It’s not even the hottest part of the summer yet. I can’t imagine this problem getting better.
    - drusepth 5y ago
      On the other hand, products do frequently shut down in "average" temperatures, especially in the context of internet dishes. The rural communities most likely to use Starlink are also those most likely to be relying on satellite dishes right now, which seem to frequently suffer from similar problems. My parents pay for internet from both HughesNet and AT&T because the former stops working whenever it snows more than an inch or two (even after clearing the dish manually) and the latter constantly drops any time there's thick rain, heavy winds, etc. There's dozens of days throughout each year where neither work and they're just SOL in terms of TV or internet.
      - shaklee3 5y ago
        No. I said this earlier, but they won a rural auction from the FCC where they were given 900 million dollars for Starlink, which includes providing coverage in areas well above 100 degrees f on a regular basis. They are required to provide this. If they hadn't won the auction, they can do whatever they want. The auction had service level agreements that could not be met with this limitation. It's a fundamental flaw that has to be fixed.
        _Microft 5y ago
        Do you know when they need to have started providing service there at the latest? They began providing service at higher latitude earlier because that is where the satellites "lump" due to their inclination, so that they needed fewer satellites in total. They are also required to cover Alaska and have now started launching Starlink satellites into (near-)polar orbits. If these are test sats or actually operational I do not know but they seem to be working on these issues. All in all they seem to be following a launch-early strategy.
        shaklee3 5y ago
        I believe late next year is the first real rollout, and the rest are scattered over 2 years. This is the reason they changed the inclination and altitude several times.
  - tptacek 5y ago
    I think you're operating from a broken definition of the word "flaw".
tzs 5y ago
It might depend on whether the advertising conveys the limitation correctly to the consumer. I had a home router once that was cutting out in the summer. The operating environment section of the manual listed a temperature range that went up to something like 105 ℉. My apartment was below 80 ℉ so didn't think that was the problem. It turns out that they meant 105 ℉ inside the router. Opening the router case and placing it so a fan I used to circulate room air was blowing over the router made the problem go away. I think it is reasonable to assume when writing a manual that if you tell a consumer that the device can be operated in an environment with a temperature range of X-Y, the consumer will take it to mean that if the temperature in their room is in that range they can use the device. If that's not what the range means, you should tell the consumer. Is the Starlink manual clear on this?
shaklee3 5y ago
It's a flaw because they are required to provide service in areas that hit these temperatures with certain SLAs. I say required because they want a government contract promising that they can do it.
MobiusHorizons 5y ago
As far as I can tell it's not advertised publicly. For instance it's not in the FAQ on the starlink website (although considerations about snow are). I was unable to find a PDF of the booklet that comes in the box though, so maybe it's in that.
- ganoushoreilly 5y ago
  I don’t recall a booklet in our box, just a cardboard setup overlay and a weather cover. It might have been in one of the the accessory boxes, I’ll look later today.

tptacek 5y ago

Yes? If you advertise a flaw, it remains a flaw.

throwaway69123 5y ago
Hard to call this a flaw no product ever invented isn’t without limitations
- falcolas 5y ago
  However, products are frequently created to not shut down in “average” summer temperatures. It’s a well known operating parameter throughout the US - temperatures break 105°F even up in Canada. It’s not even the hottest part of the summer yet. I can’t imagine this problem getting better.
  - drusepth 5y ago
    On the other hand, products do frequently shut down in "average" temperatures, especially in the context of internet dishes. The rural communities most likely to use Starlink are also those most likely to be relying on satellite dishes right now, which seem to frequently suffer from similar problems. My parents pay for internet from both HughesNet and AT&T because the former stops working whenever it snows more than an inch or two (even after clearing the dish manually) and the latter constantly drops any time there's thick rain, heavy winds, etc. There's dozens of days throughout each year where neither work and they're just SOL in terms of TV or internet.
    - shaklee3 5y ago
      No. I said this earlier, but they won a rural auction from the FCC where they were given 900 million dollars for Starlink, which includes providing coverage in areas well above 100 degrees f on a regular basis. They are required to provide this. If they hadn't won the auction, they can do whatever they want. The auction had service level agreements that could not be met with this limitation. It's a fundamental flaw that has to be fixed.
      - _Microft 5y ago
        Do you know when they need to have started providing service there at the latest? They began providing service at higher latitude earlier because that is where the satellites "lump" due to their inclination, so that they needed fewer satellites in total. They are also required to cover Alaska and have now started launching Starlink satellites into (near-)polar orbits. If these are test sats or actually operational I do not know but they seem to be working on these issues. All in all they seem to be following a launch-early strategy.
        shaklee3 5y ago
        I believe late next year is the first real rollout, and the rest are scattered over 2 years. This is the reason they changed the inclination and altitude several times.
- tptacek 5y ago
  I think you're operating from a broken definition of the word "flaw".

tzs 5y ago

It might depend on whether the advertising conveys the limitation correctly to the consumer. I had a home router once that was cutting out in the summer. The operating environment section of the manual listed a temperature range that went up to something like 105 ℉. My apartment was below 80 ℉ so didn't think that was the problem. It turns out that they meant 105 ℉ inside the router. Opening the router case and placing it so a fan I used to circulate room air was blowing over the router made the problem go away. I think it is reasonable to assume when writing a manual that if you tell a consumer that the device can be operated in an environment with a temperature range of X-Y, the consumer will take it to mean that if the temperature in their room is in that range they can use the device. If that's not what the range means, you should tell the consumer. Is the Starlink manual clear on this?

shaklee3 5y ago

It's a flaw because they are required to provide service in areas that hit these temperatures with certain SLAs. I say required because they want a government contract promising that they can do it.

MobiusHorizons 5y ago

As far as I can tell it's not advertised publicly. For instance it's not in the FAQ on the starlink website (although considerations about snow are). I was unable to find a PDF of the booklet that comes in the box though, so maybe it's in that.

ganoushoreilly 5y ago
I don’t recall a booklet in our box, just a cardboard setup overlay and a weather cover. It might have been in one of the the accessory boxes, I’ll look later today.